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Looking back on Urealms live.

Hey there, I'm very happy with the time we had watching Urealms live it was an amazing show but looking back on it, I could see why it was so draining with all the puppets, big flashy animations and just well all of it. Guess what I'm trying to ask is why did it need to be as resource demanding as it was to run such a catchy show? I mean Rob was dynamite in creating lore on the fly, he had a really good cast of players of bounce off and had a nice little system to make a narrative from.

So why was there so much stuff rammed in? I mean the animations were cool but they only last like 4 seconds of the entire skit and sound like they were a right ball ache to make, I am not a content creator so feel free to disregard everything I'm saying it's just that I run games like this all the time such as DnD, Starfinder, Pathfinder and world of darkness etc and I've never needed props, maps, models or any of that extra stuff to get across a good story to my players and Rob is a far better story teller than me so why over work yourself on such unnecessary stuff? 

This ain't a dig at Rob, hell I'm complimenting on his ability, I just always saw the additional stuff as a crutch that wasn't needed for a DM of his calibre is all and probably led to a lot of the delays and burnout. But hey, I'll always keep an eye out for future content and keep up my patron to him.


  • @Blight I think it was mainly because the extra production quality made people much more likely to donate, which was  needed in order to keep the show afloat. 
  • @stormAlchemist is right, putting on a show where you need people to donate is different from running a game. Every month the animations and donation events and forums rewards had to be carefully planned with hopes that people would donate and keep the show running. That kind of stuff was really unpredictable and all that "flashy" stuff that you say is unnecessary was what actually kept the show funded for so long.
  • @Meganzoor Hey I'm sure all the extra animations and little side rewards helped and all, but and I probably am wrong about this but I really don't think that's what people put in money or kept coming back to Urealms for. I know we all like the little avatars and cut scenes but at the end of the day that was all the side stuff, the little extra treats but at the core of why I and what I believe a great many people kept coming back to was the world, the crazy story and the memorable characters.

    Kind of just wondering why put the extra workload on yourselves if it was already such a hectic schedule for side bits, it seems to me it would of been a lot more easier on you guys to roll it back a bit. 
  • I'd personally disagree since other d&d shows did just fine, but if it was absolutely necessary for your vision of the show I'd understand, though I watched for the comedy and meme builds myself.
  • edited November 2019
    @Blight there were donation events that didnt get funded because people didnt find them interesting enough. There were donation events that people didnt want to see happen in the show. Of course there were some amazing fans that would have given money to the show without anything in return but that wouldn't have met the goals to pay all of the cast and crew.

    I was with Rob every month as he had to come up with each event hoping it would be interesting enough and trying to make each divine decision live up to the previous one. Rob wasnt pushing himself to do that just because he wanted to. I saw the numbers, this was how the show made money.

    @Whoneedspacee I'm not saying that people WATCHED the show for all that extra stuff, I'm saying that was how the show got FUNDED. I'm sure other D&D shows do just fine. They also have different ways of making money, they have sponsors and ad revenue instead of just fan funding.
  • @Meganzoor Honestly that sounds like a vicious little cycle you guys made for yourselves right there, but I must be an idiot or something because I don't understand how these donation events all needed grand events. I mean I remember being in the audience in those shows like the Law vs the murder bros or that Bruce Willakers is cannon donation event and they were as successful as they were because people gave a damn with what was happening on the board. I don't think there needed to be special artwork or animation on the table to make them sell, you just needed to drag a token onto the board or just say this and this happened as the donations met the goal.

    I understand that donation targets needed to be met to keep the engine going, I'm just saying that in no way did they need to be the greatest things in the universe one after the other and if that's what it boiled down to in the end, then hell it's no wonder why Rawb was pushing himself to the breaking point. Honestly if money was such an issue why not just have a board, players, a kick ass story with some donation goals thrown in that could effect the game and cut all the other nonsense out. Just seems like a much more cheaper and headache free way of doing it to me.
  • @Blight

    People like flare and grand moments. Once the events got a little bit bigger and grander they couldn't just suddenly go back to Season 1 level stuff. It's true with any show or story. Stakes need to be raised higher and each seasons need to feel bigger then the last. That's hardly a thing unique to Urealms.

    It was because those bigger stakes and extra flare that more people were willing to donate as much as they did. A lot of work and time goes into even the small things. It's a lot of work to plan things just right in the hopes that it gets funded and you can pay the bills this month. 

    People want something new. If each event feels the same and things just follow an exact formula then the audience gets bored and drops off. People like you may stay regardless, but you don't make up all of the Urealms audience. He has to appeal to everyone all at once as best as he could. Even the little animation take time to make and it's a really shitty feeling making one of those only to not have it be funded. So he had to make things that were guaranteed to be funded and those were usually the high stakes big events that no one wants to miss out on. 

    Plus tons of others reason neither of us know because we aren't apart of their creative process.
  • edited November 2019
    @Kalazar321 People were dropping off anyway, but I don't think you are getting what I'm saying,
    I'm not saying they should of beat a hasty retreat back to season 1, I'm saying they should of never gone that far to begin with. One of the strongest points of a tabletop rpg is that it's meant to be your mind creating the adventure through the influence of a storyteller but for some reason it was traded in to justify an art team or something I dunno. Tried to do too much and once again Rob the modern day Icarus got his wings burned out again. 

    I'm not trying to be mean or stubborn here but you have to admit this was a hell of a workload on a small team when it just didn't need to be.  
  • @Blight I am not saying that having to make a bigger and better show each month was good. No one is. It was exhausting for the BTS team including rawb, that is why URealms is over for now.

    Yes, the donation events at the beginning were simpler, but we could see from the numbers that doing the same thing and having simple events that cause Rob to drag a cool character/enemy onto the board wasn't going to be enough to get people to donate. It  worked for the first 10 or so months but people get bored and they need to be either constantly told to donate or given incentives like animations/forums rewards. 

    Honestly if money was such an issue why not just have a board, players, a kick ass story with some donation goals thrown in that could effect the game and cut all the other nonsense out.
    Your solution here is to fire the animator. You seem to not care about the animations at all but they connected a lot of people to the story and characters and URealms world and were a big part of the show since the beginning.
  • @Blight

    I think you're just assuming this was a tabletop rpg. That was all just a framework to make a show. Rob was making a show first, game second. He made that very clear many times. So things to benefit a show were the main focus. Things that would require an art team.  

    If puppet pals never existed Urealms may not have even made it to Season 3. That's just 1 of many visual flares that a game doesn't need, but a show does to succeed. It was a hell of a workload. Hence Rob changing his ways to not overwork him and his team to death. 

    Putting on a show to both entertain and make money purely on the good will of fans who don't really have to give shit to get the full experience as someone who pays $100 is not easy. It's stressful and a lot more complicated then simple being a good DM for your friends. 

    Rob is certainly someone who tries to much to the point of extreme unhealthiness, but if he hadn't then the show may not have gotten as far as it did. 
  • edited November 2019
    @Meganzoor Easy now, I'm not saying an animator should of been fired... I'm saying you guys shouldn't of hired one at all. Now before the whole forum jumps down my throat they did amazing work and all that jazz but really it's basically the equivalent to shoving a load of CGI in your movie, it's cool but if you just start relying on it, it gives you nothing.

    This will be the last time I say it cuz I feel like I'm just posting the same thing again and again, but it was a small team, on a tight budget so I just don't see the logic in taking a show where it been proven that in that format can be very successful from doing nothing more than being charismatic and decide to over complicate it with all this other stuff for what I can only tell is just this nonsense notion of more is better.

  • @Blight

    Urealms always had animations. Puppet pals uses them and Nick Graves was the animator for those early Season 1 donation events. Unless you're saying it should have stayed at the level of the Nuren Campaign, I think those elements were necessary right from the start. 

    I loved the Nuren Campain, but I don't see Urealms being as beloved if the quality of the show itself never went above that. Urealms was successful for many reasons and that includes all the work the art team did. From the card art, puppet palls, donation event animations, the hype intro movies, and the big finale endings. It was not popular solely for those elements, but I believe Megan when she says those played a huge role in the show getting financed. 

    I get your frustration. Seeing something small get bigger and bigger until it can no longer sustain itself and it all crashes down. It happens all the time and I've seen it before online. But those elements are needed. I mean Rob doesn't need all the sound effects, visual effects, sneaky mouse tech, music, and camera angles to simply play a game on Twitch and make people laugh. Tons of people literally just have the game and a mic. But those make him stand out more and the little details all add up to be something more. The details are important for a online job like this. 
  • @Kalazar321 Perhaps, but in the end it comes down to the personality/character that the people are watching for, not added effects and trimmings around the edges.

    A steady stream of content keeps a fan bases' attention more than fewer appearances/shows that happen to have a ton of money behind them.
  • @SMS00

    I hope so because the big show with a ton of money behind it is over. Rob is more focused on easier quicker streams that are more personality driven then the grand spectacle of Urealms.
  • @Blight You can't tell me that you'd have the same emotional reaction to Roamin's kids being killed if Rob just said what happened instead of watching them die in the animation lol
  • Rob
    edited November 2019
    Without Animations it wouldn't of been URealms Live. It would of been DND show #27. Also, what exactly is the point of saying "you should of been smarter and done the project like X,Y,Z". Before this project existed you didn't even know you wanted this kind of show in your life (cause you know there was nothing like it). If you can't value the artists contributions to the show, then you don't really value the show for what it was. Animations made sense in the beginning and then they continued to make sense because the idea of having an intro every show, that foreshadowed/hyped up and brought the world to life was always amazing. Being able to have those small moments to show something rather then explain something let people fill in the blank with their imagination.

    I'm very happy with what was made and I wish I had more time and resources to make it, but honestly I never had those time or resources. Did you know the rough draft for this show was made during a Christmas special? Boy that's a hard Christmas special to watch because I can hear the burnout back then in my voice because it was shortly after running out of energy/steam to do Minecraft and not knowing where I would go next.

    This thread comes across as rude and disrespectful to me and tbh I think you owe an apology to the artists involved because when they read this thread, when they hear from a random fan that their efforts "weren't important" it fucking stings man. Keep this opinion to yourself or better yet email it to me because it seems like such a rude thing to discuss in the public community. Because of that reason, I'm gonna lock this thread. The show has come and gone, being rude to the people involved in something you love because you wanna give hindsight business advice is not helpful or appreciated.

    fyi. I brought on a full time animator because I thought it was the right thing to do. I thought I could work harder and build the show up bigger so that it would all work out. I really don't need a fan pointing out failures of mine as if it's some amazing wisdom my dude. It's just rude and if you really cared about me or my project, you would of privately sent in this feedback.
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