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Theories About the Fate Worse than Death? (Potential Spoilers)

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  • I'm kinda hoping that we're all wrong and its something totally unexpected, but I do think the whole "erased from the cannon of the show" idea makes a lot of sense. I'm super hyped for the next show now, its gonna be super cool. Or maybe horrifying. Preferably both. 
  • the only problem i can think of with the cease to exist idea is that for the victim it is not really any different from death. so it isn't really a fate worse than death for them, yes you will be forgotten but you can't really complain or feel bad about it any way. for a observer it could be bad but for the victim its not really a fate worse than death. if they could somehow know about what they loose then yes. but because they stop existing it isn't that different from death from the victims point of view.
  • edited July 12
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  • edited March 2018
    After a little bit of thinking, I went on to think of how life and the after life work in Urealms. In Woodcarvers we see that the spirits of Sheila (Jormr's girlfriend), Wanda (Vitali's wife) and others fly up into the sky. It is also stated that people have souls and becoming Ageless means you lose yours. Since souls seemingly go somewhere when you die.

    I think that some form of a pleasant Heaven like afterlife has been created by Kallisto the Sun Dragon God, probably before or during the Birth of Magic to deal with the souls of those who die. If this Heaven-like place doesn't exist, then why would it matter if you were ageless? what would be the point of keeping your soul if it floated up then... did nothing?

    It was mentioned on the lore stream I think, that they were considering making the world of Urealms the inside of a box with possibly many other box universes adjacent. I don't think that has been confirmed canon in any way, however I think it is possible that Kallisto turned one of these adjacent box dimensions from nothing into either another realm for souls to be reincarnated to or into a Heaven of sorts. Maybe the souls float towards the side of the box that is shared with the Heaven box?

    Finally to the Sins of the Unforgotten. I think that this fate worse than death will trigger a divine decision, maybe an extra one, maybe it is the only one that campaign. This divine decision will have two options: 

    A) The Sun Falls (Kallisto the Sun Dragon God is struck down by the Old Gods Foolishness)

    B) The Night Risen (Phanto the Moon Dragon God creates a fate worse than death, with the power the Old Gods unwittingly gave him)

    The first, will plunge the world into darkness, leaving only 2 hours of sunlight per day and leaving the rest as night. This possible Heaven that I think Kallisto has created will be destroyed or at least no more souls will be able to go there. Meaning the souls will be destroyed anyways or will be left to drift aimlessly forever. Either way, this would mean becoming an Ageless would become widely more popular as it would be the only way to save yourself. The Grand Paladin Order (GPO) may then have to fight an almost un-winnable battle while at the same time attempting to resurrect Kallisto, or maybe even Phanto. We might even see the Highbears help the GPO as they would have lost their immortality. This might be why destroying the Sandbolds who are the only ones with any leads on resurrecting a Dragon God would be really bad. We might also see new forms of magic from a possible second birth of magic this might induce. (Rebirth of Magic?)

    The second would be equally bad. Phanto would regain some semblance of consciousness and would create two things: a form of Hell, and Destruction Magic. He would become Kallisto's full rival and would create a place for souls where they would be tortured for eternity, giving them a fate worse than death. This would mean that people somehow have to try and not go to Phanto's afterlife, whether that means not committing Sins or some other factor. As for Destruction Magic, it might be a new form of magic that only the powerful could use. This magic would allow for the total destruction of things and could be a counter to most normal magics. To wield this magic, Phanto may even intentionally or unintentionally with his awakening, destroy the characters we know who have committed the Sins of the Unforgotten and turn them into his beings of Destruction. Other creatures or beings could be used to make these Destruction beings instead as well.

    These are both horrible things to have happen, but that is what we get for committing these sins. Even if the Heaven and Hell thing is way off the mark, the other consequences would still be good I think.

    Either way I think I'm going to set up a post on the forum as well for talking about the afterlife in general for URealms.
  • So, depending on how Rob chooses to order campaigns, Gwyneth may be coming up in a campaign or two. Imagine Gwyneth, inhabited by the Grand Paladin, failing a death roll and receiving the fate worse than death. Imagine the Grand Paladin just no longer existing, or better yet, being a pawn of us.
  • I have a theory for the Fate, although perhaps not a cool one.
    I believe that Lance Willakers will get the Fate Worse Than Death, and said Fate, would be to send him into a parallel timelime/Realm of DvZ. Where Oldman Wilakers will have to spend the rest of his days watching not only Jimmies die, but also his close friends Nisovin and Roamin, until the end of his days. This can explain why in the DvZ universe Oldman Willakers does not 'Fear Death' but also doesnt really care if a few Jimmies die, because he himself knows that his purgatory like state is not over, and he will just be reborn to do it again, fighting these never ending battles. 
    It would be kinda cool for Rob to incorporate DvZ, although by no means necessary. 

  • edited March 2018
    @MalvarTheGreat
    I guess i should post what i posted onto your thread into this one 

    Building on what Malvar posted,  It probably doesn't have to be lance but the fate could be reliving your death over and over again. Let's just say you were killed by a pyroblast, now the universe glitches because people who should have died haven't and you get stuck in an infinite loop of living your death over and over again. Maybe each time you relive this death you are still free to act how you want but nothing changes and you still die,  maybe in a different way at the exact same time,  Like re: zero without any possible good outcomes. 


  • @JewishHoneybun But the fate worse than death wouldn't happen to Gwyneth; she's not a player character.
  • @scooter0427 Shoot, it specifies player characters? I didn't remember that part. (But also, what if she was?)
  • @Fera

    Soooo.... like Bruce in DvZ?
  • What if the "fate worse than death" is to become Bopen? It eould tie together two major strings and Rob keeps telling us that we'll eventually feel bad for him... 
  • edited April 2018
    I like the idea of erased from the canon of the show, but what if it went a step further? What if that character was erased from the real (our) world?

    Maybe the campaigns that character was in are deleted from youtube and all wiki references are also removed. If the character has a forum avatar it is removed. Literally every reference to this person is removed from our world (as far as Rob can enforce it)

    That is a fate worse then death; a character who never existed to us.
  • I doubt they would remove the campaign. They would just be written out using Nader's Unforgotten Tales. @josh__ab
  • edited April 2018
    I have a feeling the distinction made between character and person is important.

    Some Fate Worse Than Death will happen to Spiff, Roamin, DB, Coe, Justin, Millbee, Nisovin, or mystery last guest. Or Rawb I guess, if they ever do side quest again.

    Maybe they have to deal with a penalty for the rest of the season, like "All characters you make die easier.", or "During Character Creation, xyz happens."
    I think it will be more dramatic than my examples, but I feel the base idea of Players getting the Fate is correct.
  • @Ninjathis ;

    I like this idea more than most that have been posted here. This could still be fun in a way for the audience and a good humoured player. As opposed to things that would require deleting lore that takes them time, energy and money to make. I think erasing anything from the canon would be too much trouble and would be too bitter for Rob, the players and us.
  • It says that the next Player Character will suffer a fate worse than death @Ninjathis
  • @josh__ab I think the 'as far as Rob can enforce it' thing would be a problem though. How could one keep more than 5k people from posting about a character that conspicuously disappears?
  • We would know they had existed but the members of the realm would not @PoppyrusRose
  • @Sweatingdwarf123 I know that, but I'm saying that if a character disappeared, every fan would be talking about it, which would kinda defeat the purpose, imo
    I dunno, maybe I just think about 'deleting' lore differently
  • @PoppyrusRose We would talk about it for a while, but stop discussing it eventually. Newcomers to the show wouldn't know who they are and us older fans would simply forget the details in a couple years.

  • This is more than likely horribyl inacurrate, but I've always liked to think Pete was the first example of someone who received a fate worse than death. Died, obviouslly, but was reborn as Maelstrom and has to watch through Maelstrom's eyes as he comits all the horrible crimes, feeling guilty because it's his body and he feels everything but isn't in control.
  • What if the fate worse than death was specific to the character? I can't think of any URealms examples, but a fate worse than death for one of my own characters would be "exposure", having all their dark secrets revealed to everyone close to them. That may not sound like a big deal, but to the character it's a fate worse than death. The problem with this is you'd have to come up with a fate for every character it happens to, but it's not like this is going to be a regular occurrence.
  • This one feels a lot simpler than some, but I feel like the Fate worse than Death could be either a sort of psuedo-non-existence, or having their body overtaken by an external force. Allow me to explain.

    In Psuedo-non-existence, I feel like the character as we know them would cease to exist, being wiped from the timeline and no trace or sign of any impact they made upon the world, on their loved ones or anything. What they did up to that point would remain, but it would never be able to be associated with the character, who is seen to not exist. However, that character's spirit remains, forced to be around to watch the realm move on without them, and showing how insignificant and forgettable they are.

    The other option I feel could be that the Old Gods take full control of the character's body and their personality is instantly wiped, killing their personality rather than their body. The takeover by this external force could then unravel that character's entire story, ruining them forever. After all, a death isn't entirely bad for a character, as it fills their story. A fate worse than death is to have their entire story unravelled and rendered ruined by a force out of their control, especially if the personality and spirit are detached to physically watch their entire tale be destroyed.
  • @Jj_TeRroR_jJ
    actually that second one is likely since in the original unforgotten realms cartoon if you got five sins you would be possessed by a chaos god
  • Reliving your Death, Bruce Willakers style sounds pretty interesting.

    And if that is the case after 5 sins, and Bruce received the Fate Worse Than Death, that would mean there are 5 more people who were sinned before the start of the show. 
  • @bl1ndn3rd
    due to the metaness is there even a "before the start of the show?"
  • edited April 2018
    I mean
    Probably no.
    In what I stated above, the other 5 sinned people would have been sinned after the BoM, so between Act 3 of SoD, and Fighting Power Z, where we see Bruce alive and well. And we know Bruce uses his Dverg passive at that point so the next deathroll he failed after Fighting Power Z would actually kill him. Or give him a fate worse than death.
    Which works out, because Bruce is technically a player character. Rob's character. 

  • @bl1ndn3rd ;
    dverg Passive works once per game, so in theory the next time we see him he will have a new 'charge' of it
  • I feel like the conduit bit is what it'll be. Like, they lose all semblance of character (seeing as we've made it clear the more interesting the character, the more we value them) and basically just become a pawn. Maybe they become a way for people who won decisions to walk around in URealms-verse
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