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Theory: Nader is Bopen... At least to some degree.

edited May 2017 in General Discussion
My theory starts with this image, when Nader reminds us that we know what happened to Virgo Sunsword. This could be just to show that it is Nader having a flashback, but if so why would he flashback to being Bopen, rather than watching as a third party? I believe that the mysterious purple aura seen around Bopen, and the at various points during the Fall of Dundinborough, is Nader editing past events, which explains why he would flashback to being Bopen, because that was his doing. It also explains why Bopen has items such as "Naders Old Cane" during The Skeleton King campaign.
 This is also an explanation for why Nader was banished by Rohbear for blasphemy, for editing time, perhaps in the original series of events Virgo does not die, Golestandt is not awakened, Dundinborough does not fall, and it all happened because of Nader Leomaris. This is further supported by Nader referring to his pocket dimension as "The repository of time and space". Also Nader's Old Cane given to Deadbones in The Skeleton King has the ability to change fate, granting her the ability to try to prevent a death roll in exchange for a sin of the unforgotten. Let me know what you think, is this plausible? Is this possible? Is this true?


  • This is an interesting idea.
  • that's why he didn't die when his skull was cracked, because it never was
  • Exactly, can't be killed if you were never a real person to begin with, he's kind of like a super-believer
  • Wow, I'm pretty sure with more recent events more things are visable now. But seriously, if Nader is editing time, then I'm pretty sure the only way to beat him is for the Order of Chaos to do something drastic. Ooh, now I'm hyped for a OoC Vs TSK plotline!
  • I accept this as my head cannon until something contradicts it.
  • Didn’t Nader give a legendary to the Louis-person in SoD that we’d seen before, and the most likely legendary was his Old Cane? Unless he killed Louis, or Louis died at some point (if they worked together) or came back with the receipt to exchange it, I can’t think of why Nader would have the cane again to give to Are-ani. 
  • I think you mean the suppository of time and space  :)

    I mean, this theory is different than a lot of other ones, so it is at least more interesting. One flaw I see however is that "this explain's why Bopen has Nader's Old Cane".
    ...He's a pirate. Nader could have given it to a friend, as he is known to do, and that friend either continues re-gifting or is captured/killed by Bopen. Sorta like how in The Purge Bopen takes the Goblet of Mysteries. While it is a very Fjord item, Fjord didn't GIVE it to him, Bopen stole it.

    Other than that, I like the theory of Nader messing with time. He seems to know about the Old Gods, maybe he is part of the Order of Chaos.
    What do you think he would be doing to the Skelephelk or the Golden Golem in Fall of Dundinborough though? Those both had the purple "Bopen Smoke" around them to.
  • I think it's a very interesting theory, but what are Nader's motives for doing this? Why would he create one of the most menacing characters in the realm? What does Nader have to gain from making Bopen?
  • Nader is aware of the existence of the Old Gods when Bopen never showed any evidence of knowing that we exist... Also, with Nader's unforgotten tales and the book he has, he seems to be outside of the normal timeline so I don't see how a character from outisde the timeline could also be another character in this timeline.
  • was nader that elven child? from that one campaign where they were the royal guard to an elven family? because I think that that child became a ageless god, and assumed the role of bopen the skeleton king because it was his favorite story
  • @Thatcoolnoob2212 That child was a dwarf, and so were the family (which is why it was weird for Coe to be a guard since he was an elf). That child was called "Phineas" but Nader is an elf from before the birth of magic.
  • I think you're looking a little too hard for Bopen's origin when you just have to look at the very beginning of the Dundinborough campaign. The queen puts the prince to sleep by reading a story book about Bopen being an invincible skeleton pirate king. Clearly Bopen is a believer and the only way to kill him would be to somehow trick him into casting Lascene or Witching Hour. If he can't be killed simply trap him forever outside of time.
  • @Reizel But Bopen was frozen in time, so unless Bopen is the sword (and needs a moving "host") that's impossible for him to be a believer.
  • @Reizel
    I never thought about that!
    But bopen seems to be aware he's different from all the other ageless, and claims himself as a god, he's clearly aware of his secret power, and believers don't know they're believers.

    Also, what's that thong about Nadar being banished for blasphemy and messing with time and him sitting outside of the Urealm?

    When was that mentioned? I seem to have missed that lore.
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