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Lyn's fate deserved or no?

Do you think it was Karma for killing an entire race?


  • too be honest, we the old gods, made her kill the beenu in exchange for a child. but it was all a lie. But on the other hand ghostblade might now still be the elf from the senate of deathlantis campaign/ Percy from the purge's dad.
  • Nobody deserves a failed pregnancy but I wont weep for her.
  • To be fair in context she was tricked into killing the benu, so it is her fault for following through on the vision without thinking it through, so its still is her fault because she chose to kill the benu.
  • Kind of. She killed an entire race because of a vision. 
  • I'm not gonna lie I weeped a bit
    I voted Yes on the DD
  • I think "we" are still guilty, after all "we" manipulated her to kill the Beenu. (I am using quotes because I personally voted yes on the DD)
  • Yeh she killed an entire race to get what she wishes to have for a looooonnnnggg time. and we gave her hope. hope of getting a child after thousands if not more years. and in the end, we tricked her.

    not gonna lie, i voted yes on the DD. 
  • Well no, no one should have experience all of that. We essentially killed off the Beenu. (I also voted Yes on this week's DD).

    For everyone that fullheartedly thinks she deserved that, have you ever tried to do something so many time for so long to only now have a glimmer of hope? Wouldn't you also do unspeakable acts for that promise of hope? Have you felt the need for family? The sort of warmth and bond with another being? Now you learn that that hope was a lie and all you have done have been for nothing but because of some 'gods' wanted something to happen.
  • edited November 2017
    That is a pretty complex question overall, but I think that all in all, she got what she deserved. I think she was wrong to even assume that we, the old gods, even exist. If we put aside the obvious truth that we do exist and consider her situation from her perspective, it was completely insane to assume that eradicating an entire race would somehow win favour from some ancient beings and grant her a child. Not to mention the moral situation at hand; would you sacrifice potentially thousands or maybe even tens of thousands of living beings to give life to one child? Additionally, this question would be much harder to answer if Lyn had begrudgingly put an end to the beenu, if she felt any sort of guilt or moral dilemma when it came to committing such a heinous act. We are all selfish people; it is in our very nature. We could all see a situation in which we put our unborn child's life over the lives of "things" that we hold no connection with, and so we can relate to Lyn as humans. However, I would like to think that no one would ever make this decision without it weighing heavily on their conscience. This racism she holds against the beenu and her unflinching belief that they are not people is what makes "No" in the divine decision truly the right answer. Anyway, that is my way of rationalizing what happened and feeling better about myself.

    I personally voted yes, but given enough thought, I  would have voted no. 

    TLDR: She's stupid to believe she'll have a kid just because she had some hallucinations that tell her to kill a bunch of beenu. That's not rational thought, that is the thought process of a delusional psychopath and an idiot. So don't feel bad about your decision, feel bad for the Beenu who died because of her foolish delusions.
  • those benu kids were quite cute and now they are dead jest like her son its karma 
  • edited November 2017
    @Grimshade ; Really well said.  It's on Lyn's shoulders for thinking that she would be rewarded for committing such a heinous act.

    Also, Ghostblade is a character already established in lore.  So it's possible that Lyn still did/will have Ghostblade as her son, but then he gets taken away from her to never be seen again (until some potential campaign where they might somehow reunite).  

    I think that would actually be the harshest way to punish her because she actually did get her dream achieved, but in the end we shatter it as punishment for committing genocide and trying to put the blame on us rather than accepting it was her own choice to ruin the Beenu for selfish reasons.  She shouldn't be allowed to justify her actions by saying that we told her to do it.
  • @NovaXII was it not foolish for her to assume that she would be rewarded for committing an atrocity? You can see real world examples of how that is flawed; that is the very mentality of extremists and terrorist groups! As for hope, I agree that we humans would go to many lengths for hope, but that does not make it right. I don't believe that this is our fault in any way whatsoever. If a voice in your head tells you to kill someone, would you do it? 
  • I feel like if something akin to the Old Gods told me what to do and promised a reward, of course I'm going to go along with what they say! Seriously, am I the only one thinking 'what would I do in her place?' and coming up with the answer of 'exactly what she did'?
  • @KaeawynShifter but... what if... you're wrong... and you just massacred an entire race... and your imaginary gods fail to uphold their part of the bargain... would be a shame. I am not saying this question is an easy one to answer, just that I think one side is more reasonable than the other.
  • @Grimshade Well, at that point I can't blame myself, because either I'm insane, which means I can't be held accountable for my actions, or the Old Gods are dicks and I dedicate the rest of my life to destroying them- Shit, well, I think I know what Lyn is doing now.
  • @KaeawynShifter Hahaha, that would be one hell of a character arc! But to be honest, I don't think the Old Gods are dicks, Rob is just a cruel bastard who takes advantage of our ignorance in his story that he set us up for.
  • @Grimshade ; Do we blame mental ill people for their insanity ? This isanity that the Old Gods caused by sending her three visions that corrupted her, by marking her for a time. It just seems that we made her insane. Playing with the hope of a person is a dangerous thing, it's normal to assume someone would do anything for what they desire the most...
  • @Grimshade Well, yeah, I totally think that the majority of us are good people, it's just that due to our system bad things happen. Though Lyn totally wouldn't know any of that and would assume that we all agree on everything. And I mean, Rawb is a cool guy, he may do terrible things to his characters, but I can't stop him, and it's entertaining, so I'm not going to stop watching.
  • @KaeawynShifter In the latter example you can still blame yourself since you were of sound mind and committed an atrocity on a scale not even humanity has accomplished - (deliberately causing an extinction event for a group of sapient creatures).  Shifting the blame onto some otherworldly ass-holes doesn't fly since you still decided that having a child justifies genocide to the point of extinction.
  • @Dalard I agree with your point that Lyn is truly a victim of her own circumstance. However, the Old Gods are not to be blamed for her actions. She had no evidence if we even exist! For all she knew, she was just trippin balls getting all kinds of whacky hallucinations. Do you think its right for someone to listen to a voice in their head demanding the slaughter of an entire race? The next question: Do you think it is right for someone to assume that they will be REWARDED for committing such an act (by a voice in their head, mind you)?
  • To be honest, I do think it was well-deserved.  It was already shown how she thought the Beenu as much, much lesser beings than herself.  She was desperate for a child and I do feel for her on that aspect, but to openly kill out an entire race is beyond evil, regardless of your intentions. 

    Did the old gods trick her?  Yes.  Are they solely to blame? No.  She was in complete control of her own actions.
  • @Bevan I mean, you and me obviously have different morals, I'm not saying that what she did was the right thing, but if she wanted a child enough (and she had 77 miscarriages, she totally wanted that child) it makes sense for her to do.
  • edited November 2017
    @Bevan ; And we've seen this plenty of times in real life history where belief in higher beings/destiny/whatever leads people to commit atrocities for no reason other than "something bigger than ourselves justify it." 

    Also I think us Old Gods are a very diverse bunch, we're not just some giant hive mind where the Divine Decisions mean everyone agrees with the Old God who ultimately carries out that decision.   It's perfectly reasonable to think that one Old God promised Lyn a baby for carrying out the genocide, and Old Gods who donated put these visions into Lyn's head.  In the end one other Old God decided that enough was enough and that these visions should not be 100% true, as otherwise Lyn was trying to justify her decisions by believing in whatever she thought the visions were suggesting she do.  

    It's not that we're a cruel schizophrenic bunch but more that we've all got different ideas on what to do and how we should influence things that creates this interesting dynamic and leads to these decisions.
  • I think we are more responsible for we manipulated her, but also she is not without blame as he choose to go through with killling off an entire race so that she could maybe be given a child. She choose to destroy however many lives in an attempt to selfishly bring into the world one life. Overall from how the story is now, it is our fault for killing off the beenu by manipulating a selfish woman, but she must also share the consequences of her selfish desire.  

  • Rob
    edited November 2017

    Great points here.

    would you sacrifice potentially thousands or maybe even tens of thousands of living beings to give life to one child

    Now this is a moral quagmire because you have to put yourself in Lyn's position. You were born immortal, you lived for tens of thousands of years in eternal bliss and death is barely a concept in your society. A couple hundred years since you lost your immortality you go on a quest to better yourself and are given a vision you perceive as divine intervention that shows you a path forward.

    The main point of this moral problem for the viewer is to argue. Is Lyn in the right? Is Lyn in the wrong? I don't think you can really say Yes or No to either of them. We eat and wipe out all sorts of life in our world. Would you kill some Ants to have a child? These are hard questions, but I think any fan who spends time thinking and talking about them with an open mind can really grow from sad stories like this, hence why I want to tell them. Also they are emotional rollercoasters and it's fun!

  • @Grimshade ; First, we don't know if she learned more things about the Old Gods after her adventure trough the Tower. Like you said, she didn't have any proof of us existing so I suppose that she gain later this information (for example, she may have talked to somebody who knows about the mark like the Order of Chaos). But I also agree with you on the fact that insanity doesn't excuse a genocide, but it's us that began with killing Phanto.

    And I have never seen her having a child like a reward. I always think that having a child would change her, would, make her understand what she has done. It could also be a curse because she seems to have lost her child again (not sure because of the last vision) making her suffer for what she has done, shattering her hope.

    I think that if the Old Gods wouldn't have killed Phanto, or if we didn't give her these visions, she wouldn't have killed all the Beenu hence why I think we are to blame. But it's also true that Lyn is also responsible, but not as much as the old gods.

  • @Rob That's exactly why I love your storytelling, playing with the different realities of all characters, with their own way of viewing the world, different than ours. Thank you so much for showing us these great stories in this great world and deliver it every show, even in goofy ones.
  • To be completely honest, I think that this Divine Decision crosses the line from justice to cruelty. Yes, she did a horrible thing in poisoning the beenu, but we told her (either directly or indirectly, still not sure) to do it. We told her that she would finally have what she always wanted: a child. If she had been infertile, then it would be justice. She would have the same fate she brought upon the beenu. To give her a child and then snatch it away is cruelty. We rewarded her with her child, then killed it at the last minute because we suddenly decided that her happiness was something we didn't actually want. Not that she was a good person; on the contrary, she doomed a whole species of people and then passed it off as a minor chore. But what we've done to her, hammering in the pain she's been in, is worse.

    But I'm just overanalyzing the fate of a fictional character.
  • @BewareTheDragon No overanalyzing :) analyzing fiction is a way to learn about ourselves and our world.

    Even if I totally agree with you about this reasoning on cruelty, I don't think that the Old Gods are to blame for what happened to Lyn child. Choosing about the nature of Urealms' visions isn't linked in anyway to Lyn child...
  • I think that Lyn didn’t deserve at all. yes, she did awful horrible disgusting things, But, it was all in False hope of the vision of where she is pregnant, (Also i am aware that doesn’t make her actions any less horric or terrible ) But in the end the pregnancy either never happends or she has a miscarriage. Whichever it was  No one Should have to go though anything like that.
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