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Appropriate Language in Stream Chat

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  • @Kyolus I believe there is a lack of people opposing Rob because most people agree with him, what he's saying about the chat is true and people weren't listening to the mods (I saw one person being told to stop calling them lesbos so they called the character a dyke, I'm still a bit unsure what a trap means because I'm not a part of the anime community) also people probably aren't opposing him because they respect that he's working hard in creating an accepting environment where he makes entertaining content that can be free. If you feel like there's a problem and want to express your opinion, do it, if Rob didn't want opinions he could've made this thread and locked it straight away to end discussion.
  • @Mega_muncher there are definitely people opposing Rob, you just need to go to the beginning of the forum thread. I think many of these people have been banned, or don't feel welcome to continue discussion, as many have told them to shut up and that there opinions are wrong. Rob has said that he has banned several people, just check his posts. I don't want to end up like those who have been banned, whose opinions it seems Rob doesn't want, hence them being banned. 

    also people probably aren't opposing him because they respect that he's working hard in creating an accepting environment

    This statement is self contradictory. If an accepting environment is being created, them people would be opposing Rob, as their opposing opinions would be accepted. Thus people would not be getting banned and the latter end of this post would not be people all agreeing.
  • @Sonderp my logic with the show is that why would sexism and racism(skin wise) exist? Sure there are guy and girl and black and white gnomes, but how much crazier is it for a gnome to be dating an elf than it is for them both the be girls? A lot more, hell that's a whole other species! Like Ice Cream Waifu's relationship was totally fine, but an elf stooping so low (sometimes literally) as to be with a gnome? Madness!
    One thing I've read a lot on the thread is that yeah, people try to make the show more like real life, which is stupid, because it's fantasy.
  • @Kyolus Looking back at those comments earlier in this thread, many of the people opposing Rob appear to see the word 'trap' only as an "Anime Meme" and so don't see the harm in it. This may be the only context in which they have seen this word, so maybe they don't realise that in reality is an extremely offensive slur against trans women. Honestly I don't see how anyone can oppose Rob on this matter if they have any understanding of the hurt that words like those can cause to others, even just seeing them used casually in conversation and not against them personally.
  • I don't usually watch the shows live as it's on a bit late for me but while i have my own opinions on the use of words such as trap and lesbos. I understand this isn't the place to have that discussion, it's not an argument anyone is going to win either. If Rob doesn't want the use of certain words in this community because it may offend some people then we should respect that and enjoy the show thats had so much work put into it. 
  • @Savin I don't deny that words can be offensive, and sure, there are definitely people that find trap and/or lesbo offensive, and they have every right to feel that way. My issue is not with the words being used, but more with how the community has reacted and how some people holding differing opinions have been very clearly alienated.
  • I have the view where words are words you know? I do however, want us to respect the moderators and the staff more regarding this issue because we are a growing community. I may not share many people's views on the issue of how words can harm, but I personally don't throw a fit over not having to say a word. If the word 'trap' is an issue for someone then I generally nod in acknowledgement and just try to not use it around someone it bothers. I can see how people of the opposing side of Rob may feel a bit wronged, but I think it doesn't hurt to just recognize that live we as a community shouldn't do this because a.) The mods asked nicely b.) TBH it is a shitty meme c.) If people are bothered by it just go somewhere else where it is more wanted. We are trying to build a welcoming general community. That doesn't mean it bends to each of our personal desires. I am okay with this because there isn't a witch hunt on anyone using language others don't like.
  • edited October 2017
    @Kyolus It was pretty heated at first. I understand your concerns though. I stopped commenting for a bit because I was a wee worried about how the thread would turn out. It did help to get away from it though which is what I think Rob intended for the bans other than the trolls.

    Now though it feels safe. It was just very back and forth early on.
  • this thread should just be closed tbh. the points already clearly been made that rules are rules and that if you're told not to do something by a mod you shouldn't do it. This thread is becoming stupid considering the whole point of the post was "rules are rules don't argue" now just becoming a platform for people to argue.
  • @Kyolus I may only be seeing one side of this, but what opinions other than "These words aren't offensive" and "It's okay to use these offensive words" are being alienated? If you are personally okay with using an offensive word, I won't hold it against you, but if someone is explicitly told that this community is no place for that language, I don't see why they feel the need to oppose that, it's not alienating them so much as asking them to limit their vocabulary to less offensive words. Personally I see nothing wrong with swearing, but I would not swear in a community where it is against the rules, as I can see how others may find it offensive.
    While on the other hand, people who are offended by those words would almost certainly feel alienated in a community where using those words was commonplace, they may use this community as an escape from struggles in real life, and don't want to see those struggles follow them to what should be a friendly online community.
  • edited October 2017
    Some of these people are just trying to put words in people´s mouths ,which is why some don´t want to bother trying. Everybody on this forum likes the show whether they disagree with him or no. Why would we put our own opinions if we didn´t? I admire this show for the amount of work put into it ,and I´ll still watch it on Saturdays. Up to Rob Anyway
  • @LucyStrike Yeah, I agree at this point there isn't much left to add to the conversation. Maybe give it another day and lock it up so people don't see it out of context of the situation (That being a lot of chat was shitty to the mods.).
  • edited October 2017
    @Savin I totally agree with you. People will find these words offensive and they will feel alienated as a result. I'm not endorsing the use of these words. I don't really care if the community is not allowed to say these words. What I care about is how people who think these words are okay are being themselves alienated. If Rob had responded with something along the lines of what you just said, being polite and reasonable, none of what I have said would have been necessary, but instead he responded by alinetating them, just because they expressed a different opinion. For example:
    And after all that you felt the need to respond to this publically. To be honest, I don't really want either of you in this community anymore as well. Your support just isn't worth the disrespect towards the community and show.
    Is how Rob responded to two people reasonably disagreeing with him, one of which, @BubbaOleGuard had merely said:
    @Gent Agreed ~_~
    and
    @Astora ; Different opinions that's all  ~_~  Not fussing 

  • The ultimate goal of the team is to create a good show that can survive on its own merits. This requires everyone on the team to be on good terms or at least neutral with the rest of the community. If the show suffers because resentment is built up in one of the producers then that is going to bleed into the rest of the community and generally breed more resentment. The community part is secondary as far as I'm concerned.

    While I do find it ironic that this is what is considered offensive in a campaign that literally revolves around genocide I have to respect the decision. I work in a store, and my ultimate goal is to create a good environment for my customers so they will be willing to give our establishment their money. I've had to kick people out of my store; not because I was personally bothered by the behavior, but for insisting on behavior that made my coworkers uncomfortable. Because if my coworkers started resenting my customers then that would be a long term detriment to the store.

    The goal is to create a good show. Valuable contributors to the show have been made uncomfortable about the actions of certain individuals. When the choice stands between removing a few bad seeds to keep the contributors happy or having the contributor hate their job I think the choice is pretty obvious.

    From a leadership perspective it's not a fun job to have to kick people out, but hopefully it will bolster relationships within the team and provide a better working environment for all.
  • @Kyolus I personally don't think Rob went too far with that comment, he already took time out of his day to explain the situation in this thread, he wrote about how those words are offensive, and Gent, among others, continued to argue with him. Gent was one of those I mentioned earlier who only saw 'trap' as an anime meme, and seemed confused about people being offended by it. I can't really defend him, since if someone told me I said something offensive, I'd research why it could be offensive and probably reevaluate my use of that word, not stand my ground and argue and tell the other person they are wrong.
    It's not really a difference of opinion so much as a lack of understanding, and an unwillingness to learn. Rob explained in his first post that the words were offensive, that should be enough.
  • Dude people are just mean, I was once called retarded by one of my peers and it broke me, when Spiiffs wife died I felt my heart being tugged at and I was sad for Spiff.  Also, it's not like shes the first person to have a gay character, Roman would be first if you count Fantastico.  You have my sympothies
  • edited October 2017
    @Kyolus My apologies for not being clear. I do not think you took the time to carefully and consciously concoct a way to rally up a response. But that is what your message ultimately is. "No one wants to hear from me, sigh" is a clear call for "Please, indulge me," whether or not you realized it at the time. Had you truly "decided not to post anything here," I'd have had nothing to respond to. It's a call for attention - again, I'm sure it wasn't a purposeful one, but if you reread your phrasing (including actually typing out the word "Sigh...") I hope you'll understand how it is read by others. To put it bluntly, it reads childish.

    I suggested you re-read the original post, wherein the guy who makes the rules for the site gave fair reasons to keep that sort of language out of this community, the most pertinent one being this, emphasis mine:
    This show must mean very little to you if the only thing you bring to the conversation is slurs and insults. Oh you don't think it's a slur or insult? Great. We do. We told you not to do it. Congrats on not being offended by certain words and lacking the empathy to understand that other people are different. 
    If Rob said "You're not allowed to say the word 'Shit' in the forums because it bothers me," guess what? That's the rule, whether or not you agree or deem it an appropriate rule. Disagree to your heart's content, but purposefully disregarding the rule and arguing why you think you should be allowed to say it is disrespectful. And I think that's a point you aren't realizing: people aren't being banned for disagreeing, they're being banned for disrespect. Rob's in charge and he doesn't like this language, so if you use it, you're willfully ignoring his wishes, so you get banned. Likewise, if you fail to show respect to his moderators, arguing with them when they tell you to stop doing something, you get banned. 

    Lastly, I said your opinion is probably not worth having if your only fear is losing your account. Allow me to rephrase that: If you won't sign your fake internet name to an opinion, I fail to see how it actually means that much to you. In fact, it means less to you than an account that took 4 seconds to create, so why should anyone else care? 

    (edited for clarity)
  • Men, it sucks people have to go and so stuff like this. I thought we were all just here for a fun time.
  • Rob
    Rob
    edited October 2017
    @Kyolus Just stop.

    "I would express my opinion and please prevoke me to do so"

    and you have. Do you know how LOTS OF PEOPLE in this community express their opinion to me about this? By PMing me so that they can say what they want to say without the rest of the community judging them too harshly for it. For some people this shit is sensitive and you just come in here like a bull in a china shop arguing for the sake of it. 

    Instead you have baited people into a response and then act as if your worried I would ban you because I have banned people in this thread? Gent and Bubba aren't banned you goof. They said what they said, and I responded.

    I deleted your last post because it's a wall of text with nothing important to the discussion. You are adding worthless fuel to this thread by saying shit like "Rob might ban me for my opinion" that is purposely (or ignorantly) inflammatory. Stop it, or I will have to ban you because I asked you to stop it and you couldn't listen. If you want to respond to me, PM me, but you bring nothing to the table and have made yourself to look like a complete fool by acting as if I banned users like gent and astora for just responding to the thread. I banned users who came into this thread with accounts to post memes or be purposely rude posting on alternate accounts, but I deleted those posts so you won't be able to read them because I don't need my community coming in here, reading those trolls and getting upset. 

    Finally, really did you need to make this thing about you? Oh you weren't offended by anything in the stream, but my god you have to post in this thread to tell people you feel uncomfortable you can't shamelessly put your opinion in a thread without being judged. Exactly, that's how life works. You will be judged on the things you say. If you are too ashamed of your opinion to say it in public, you PM it to me like everyone else does, you don't bait people into giving you an excuse to vomit words on them. Read more, write less. I am here because I have to be here. You are here because you can't help but argue with it. 
  • @Rob Ignorantly. Didn't know you hadn't banned those guys. I thought that you were banning people for their opinions, I see I'm wrong, sorry. I did send you a PM though discussing what I wanted to discuss. I tried to stay away from my opinion and largely believe I did. Anyhow I'll stop talking now, if you have the time to read my PM, I'd appreciate that.
  • @Rob I'm sorry Rob, I was typing my response while yours was posted. If you'd like to delete mine, that's totally fine by me.
  • @KuraCara It's okay. I'm going to delete your response. Nothing was even that bad with what Kyolus is saying, they are just ignorant and arguing based on that ignorance. It's frustrating for everyone involved when people argue from a incorrect point, so it's best to just ignore and move forward.
  • I don't really see why this had to be as big of a thing as it seems to be and it baffles me people are getting so riled up over this.

    People were distracting / making uncomfortable the performers, were told to knock it off, then banned when they didn't. It's not about free speech or what is or isn't offensive, it's like heckling at a comedy gig... if you keep doing it you'll be asked to leave, and eventually escorted from the building if you make a scene. Doesn't matter what you were saying, people could have been shouting "PURPLE BANANA" in the chat but if they did it enough to warrant a mod response because it's distracting, it'd be the same thing.

    That's all that matters here. @Rob and the chat moderators are ensuring they have a good performing environment, and they have my support in that.
  • edited October 2017
    People need to remember that this isn't the place for political correctness or what offends people and what not. This place is supposed to be a place where fans of URealms get together and talk about URealms. As Rob stated, this is essentially "his house" in a sense. He (and the rest of the people that work on URealms) created this forums for us to talk about the show and show appreciation for it, not to argue over stuff that really, at the end of the day, is just a matter of differing opinions about something outside of URealms. If you want to discuss and debate about these topics, go to Reddit or Tumblr where there are dedicated channels of communication to discuss these topics.

    If a Moderator asks you to stop saying something in the chat, regardless if you find it offensive or not, take it on the chin and stop trying to cause unnecessary Drama. There's no reason why you should be saying those things in the first place if I'm perfectly honest. As @Noxx stated above, all that Rob and the chat moderators want is a friendly environment for the show. 

    tl;dr; Stop taking things out of proportion. When asked to stop spamming chat with dumb comments, take it on the chin and stop.
  • @TheRoxyFTW ; Agreed, and this is not a platform for free speech, this is a goofy internet show we all care waaaaaaaay to much about so we end up getting heated. Instead of arguing among ourselves, go rewatch another campaign and enjoy yourself.
  • I was one of the people saying trap and when i heard it was offensive i looked up... like other people i only knew it as an anime meme but its not hard to see how it was not that at all and i was wrong to say something without understanding its meaning. I really am sorry if anyone was offended by what i said but at least i understand the meaning now.
  • @Tinethewizard I really appreciate that man. Thanks for that.
  • edited October 2017
    @Rob There truly is no reason to thank me i did something wrong and the least i could do is say sorry for it. Also you doing a really good job about all of this and this is why your one of my favourite people. Or is it person neither sound right to me but ether way the statement is true.
  • While I didn't make it to the live campaign this time, I noticed the inappropriate behavior in the last campaign chat live, it means a lot to me that Rob made this statement and that people are actually learning and changing for the better because of it. I don't have a lot to add but I wanted to say thanks to Rob and the mods/staff. 
  • @Dweebdude Go re-watch the show AND buy shirts :3
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