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I think rob wrote himself into a corner . . .

     Well you see with the death of Lance Willakers and with Gwyneth and Galen being the only major characters besides the grand paladin order campaign characters still alive I think Rob has a problem about creative thinking and writing. Well with we know that Bopen is seemingly unkillable, so what needs to happen is some way to take his powers away besides that he could ruin the hope of winning on the living side. Well if this just sounds like rambling they your probably right, but the point I'm trying to make is that Bopen is a problem with no seeming natural cause. Take from this what you wish but this is to just to tell Rob that as a viewer I'm intrigued to see how Bopen can be ended. I also hope you have plans for Nisoven and the sun keys to hopefully tie in with the major war of the living vs ageless. Anyway whatever I hope rob comes up with something creative to get rid of Bopen temporarily or permanently. I have to end this somehow so feel free to post your ideas about what will happen with Bopen and The Grand Paladin Order.

                                                                                                                              -a watcher from beyond

(if you want defgan to kill bopen go ahed I'm not going to kill your hype train)



  • This is the only the beginning of the war. I think Lance's story was destined to be this way as long as Bopen showed up. Had Bopen not shown it was either the characters die or Lance dies. (Paladins also seem to be way overconfident and do not fight in strength unfortunately :( )
  • Rob has a plan for how to kill Bopen. He knows everything about this character, and the whole point is that Bopen is supposed to seem unkillable. Seem is the operative word. He's incredibly powerful, yes, but he has a weakness. Rob knows full well what he's doing.
  • Spoilers:

    In the campaign, Roamin managed to kill Bopen and Bopen just reformed, and rawb said that when he was created in the fall of dundinborough, that Bopen was actually rebirthed, so Bopen has been killed before. Therefore there is a way to kill Bopen, which elves would probably know and dealing with him shouldn't be too much of a problem. Although, he will just come back later, but it's a game of delaying with powers like him.

  • @Ninja_Goose ;
    I doubt he has existed before and Bopen said he was rebirthed. It wasn't confirmed by Rawb as far as I know. I just think he was waiting and the story of Bopen was the perfect cover.
  • @CaptainDeston Thats true, Bopen could be a newly formed creature. Who or what created him then?
  • I feel like the vault at Dundenborough and the aura from his sword is somehow tied with his life force or magic. Rob has said he's got plans even for seasons beyond so even if my guess is completely wrong I feel like he still has some sort of way Bopen can die.
  • @Ninja_Goose ;
    That's for us to see! I wish I knew, but as Shal said I think it has something to do with that vault and one other outside source.
  • edited October 2017
    I think Rob has it all planned out, he's talked multiple times about how he already has almost everything planned out for multiple seasons ahead right now. Bopen is just being built up to be really intimidating and I am 100% sure that Rob has had ways to kill Bopen planned for a long time already. 
  • hmm :\  if the rat queen must always exist is bopen similar in any way? he could be a remenant of the phanto or something crazy cool like that, who formed himself, got killed, then reformed himself at dundinborough.
  • edited October 2017
    @Fera ; I always felt Bopen was more the sword. It being due to the prince messing with that sword, cutting people and giving it blood.... that fed it and awoken a spirit inside of it. Bopen being something that needs a physical form using the dead bodies around him to make one in a humanoid form. The importance of that sword has been heavily implied as well as the skeletal form has been shown to be pointless with the skull breaking twice. Though it is noteworthy to remember that Phineas said "You have bones in weird places...".
  • @Insane2201 ;
    I agree because it seems a bit coincidental that the very day the prince gets the sword things act weird then who kills him and his family in the bunker? He sure as hell didn't and considering we as fans heard the Bopen folk tale the same day would imply the sword is using it as a guise. A cover. Also to note we have had enchated talking swords before in Okinoma Guild Hall.
  • @Ninja_Goose If Virgo the grand paladin didn't know I don't think any other elves would know.
  • @greenpear There's one person who might know, or be able to figure it out.  The one non-divine who has better survivability if not just being outright more powerful than Bopen, Nisovin.  Bopen may be able to kill one or a few of the Nisovin believers, but he'd be hard pressed to take out the entire network of them before they'd be able to figure out his weakness.
  • @Fera ;
    Yay i was thinking the same thing. 
    We now have the sword of Bopen (possibly) 
    and the Rat Queen's Axe (malignant) 
    Excited to see what else comes next. Might be a connection of items from before the birth of magic and ageless entities. Is there a god or divine that made these, were the items corrupted? are there more items spread around? 
    gotta wait for that season 10 reveal   ;)
  • Maybe there's a certain weapon, spell or person that can kill Bopen.
    Or maybe we're overthinking it and Rawb will just think of something amazing like he always does.
  • similar to the theory that Bopen is his sword, I think that, even though it doesn't match up with the DVZ lore, Bopen is Excalaju.
  • @Dragonnskull DVZ is a totally different universe. It's not cannon to URealms. I could argue it's an alternate universe, but at this time they are not cannon w/ one another.
  • edited October 2017
    As far as what we know about Rob's modus operandi for storytelling. Bopen does have a way to be killed. This is further confirmed by the brutal deathroll that Roamin forced. Since he failed to roll a 20. Rob was very interested in specifically how Roamin was going to attack Bopen. This alone implies that if Roamin as a player had any idea how to kill Bopen, it would have succeeded by virtue of the integrity Rob has for the game system. We may never know how this would affect Rob's story. But Rob is a fair DM and he would have killed Bopen the character on that roll. As sure as he let Lance and friends get completely steamrolled and executed by the party.

    This is not the first boss that has seemed unkillable. I remember the gigantic flame spooky from "The Sunswords." and the final boss of "The Zarlin Catacombs". Both of which seemed unbeatable, but that would make a bad story. Just like having the party walk into a sphere of annihilation, which is a literal ball of kill anything. 

    Rob seems to always write the campaigns in such a way that no matter what. The plot he has in mind will be told. But the details might need to reflect what happened in the campaign. Notice that he had Lance flee. Instead of forcing him to join the crew, or being executed outright. He's ageless now. But, he can still return to the Grand Paladin Order. And for plot reasons, he can say his peace before being executed or he can "stay" in the order. Rob is wise in the way of no tricks. Wise in the way of open ended story telling. I might be overestimating how much planning he does, but if I know one thing. Porbo the strongest porc is still involved. And I will believe this head canon forever.

    But these are just my reflections on how the campaign unfolded. With regards to Bopen and what he may or may not be. I really don't believe Rob will introduce an DEUS EX MACHINA to give The Light a means of killing Bopen. Nor do I think he has the story written to end with "and then the ageless killed The Light, the good guys all died." 

    Edit: Don't trust edits. But I had to. To disambiguate the exmachina thing.
  • If you think about all of the potential outcomes, it's easy to rough plan for where to go with your story with all the outcomes! Here is the cool part of Lance Willakers though.

    Up until this campaign, there was NOTHING special about Lance Willakers. He showed up as a trick because people thought they would get "Old Man Willakers" when it turned out to just be his son. The next time you see him he's fighting with other Paladins and given the opportunity to be more of main character, but he didn't become grand paladin, so his character went back to being kinda a blank slate. Sure he was in campaigns and did stuff, but he has no story of his own. At best his story is that he is the son of another Character fans are interested in.

    But now you have a Paladin, high up in the grand paladin order, who is ageless themselves. ooooooo Your mind should start turning because there are MANY different ways to go with this guys story now isn't there? What does he do next? How does he change?
  • @Rob ;
    What makes it more interesting, is his attitude towards ageless beforehand. 
  • @Rob @Shuckle ;
    If you think about it, it's kinda like what happened to Bob when Bopen converted him (even though we've never seen him post Ageless, he was on the beach with Bopen). They both were faithful followers of Ouro'ras and the Paladin Order, but now that they are Ageless, will they have the same outlook on life?
  • @Emperor Bob is a mind slave, so I doubt he has much of an outlook on being ageless at all. 
  • @Shuckle ;
    Well, from what we know, it looks like the Medusa effect can seemingly wear off over time? In Senate of Deadlantis, it looked like Krungor had free will as he was talking to Cain, and beat up Merci with him. 
  • @Emperor I think the mindslave thing is more passive than straight slave. They exercise their own will, but the thing is that whenever they need a firm hold on them they can be forced to follow orders.
  • There are a lot of ways to go with this beyond Bopen killing everybody, particularly if we get a couple more campaigns based around GPO members and their attempts to find out more about their enemy, and how to effectively mass-kill them. Also remember that Golestandt is flying around out there, and it's likely the Sunswords will want to get hold of him for silver and other shenanigans.

    Personally, I think the key to killing Bopen lies in his sword, for two main reasons:
    1) He mentions that Lance Willakers was there for his 'rebirth' in the Purge Campaign... well logically that would be at the end of the Fall of Dundinborough where Bopen reforms out of the bones of the dead royal family. Something that was a key feature of that campaign was his sword, which clearly exists without him existing.
    2) Bopen does an awful lot with his sword. I get that it's his weapon, but the fact that he can fling it around and summon it back to him, and use purple-tinged magic from it to make a 'writ' as Rob called it with people to join his crew... I think there is something going on with that blade.

    To my mind, the sword is something like Bopen's Phylactery. So long as it is exists, so will he, and the reason Rob wanted Roamin to fully describe his Brutal Death Roll is because of that. Roamin already had his sword broken... perhaps his death roll was to break Bopen's sword and kill him, or to kill him with his own sword. Maybe if a character did that, Bopen's magic would dissipate and he would die... all we need is someone to figure that out. Maybe there's a second part to Bopen's song which banished him the last time, leading to him ultimately needing his rebirth in TFoD

    ...There are definitely more ways to go forward than just Bopen killing folks.
  • Don’t forget, if something seems impossible, a wizard did it
  • @Ninja_Goose ;
    So Bopen is Alduin now? That explains a lot actually.
  • edited October 2017
    remember in bopen's children's bed time story there is a mention of a black ring i do not know what it is but it seems to be very important and possibly the root of his power are a magnifier for it 
    also i find it possible that bopen does not use his own energy that instead he uses the energy of the golden golem from Dundinborough which i will note that he seems to feed but not use as part of his crew which to me creates a strange bond between the two possibly the ring holds bopen's soul and the golden sword absorbs the power created by the golem and passes it to the wielder in this way bopen seems to be less of a god or being and more of a force or a idea that cannot be killed but can be delayed by separating the sword from the ring and keeping the golem's spirit in check.

    could it be possible that bopen is a manifestation of the golem or could it be the other way around bopen begin a representation of the golem makes a bit more sense to me as he does all the "grunt" work as grunty as being basicly a god can be could the golem have other representations or thralls that bring him gold in return for power from him i do not think that this is the answer but it is an interesting line to explore.
    ( this is probably wrong but it is my working theory)
  • I really hope that we get the whole ring storyline and the sword is literally just a bad&## sword bopen uses. Honestly when I connect the words 'black ring' and 'soul' or 'power' I instantly think of a morganti ring. (for those of you who do not know what morganti is, it is a metal from the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust,and it can destroy souls if the skin is pierced by it, but many other worlds have used it as a soul destroyer metal.) I honestly think he made a spell so that his soul is no longer stored in his skull, and instead in the ring, which he probably hid somewhere or sank to the bottom of the ocean, or even blasted off into outer space! Or maybe Bopen climbed the tower of ultimate wizardry and asked Quintara Lotus to keep it safe...
  • @KaeawynShifter @purehidro I doubt it's the ring just because it's too straight forward and doesn't seem like Rob to do that. That's just my feeling on the ring theories.
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