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I Miss Donation Events

edited July 28 in General Discussion
I wanted to put my thoughts out on the new system of donations and while I appreciate animations being saved for more impactful moments I also feel the show has slightly suffered as a result. Would it be possible to find something in between? I try not to be judgemental about new things and embrace them openly but I didn't manage to do that with this new system.

I enjoy donation events as making it clear what is coming up next to the viewer gives us something to build excitement for even when nothing is happening on screen at the moment by telling us which fun quirky events that are upcoming. They also let things constantly happen while in combat or roleplay and giving constant new things for the players to react to giving a nice flow to the campaign. I don't think donation events even need cool animations to go with them though I do understand why it's done.

I wanted to start a discussion about this because it's a big change and I'd like to hear differing opinions. 

Comments

  • edited July 28
    I think its fine for the most part
    Though i did like the variety there was with multiple donations. You could donate for lots of different little things to happen. And some came with accolades that not everyone might get. Like that animal race in Galen Sunsword PI.
    Or the assassin one that was so unlikely to happen that Rawb didn't think it was necessary to be drawn at all
    (Both of which i got btw)
  • edited July 28
    Edit: Idk how to delete my comment. I've had a change of opinion and want to abstain from the discussion for now.
  • Rob
    Rob
    edited July 29
    Donation Events were hard to design, grueling for animations and our team to setup, and providing little in value to the youtube vod or post URealms release. The recap really showed me this as I would go through each campaign and all the animations had little to do with what happens and were just the players do some meme jokes. It also feels really bad when they don't go off. Mentally in the middle of the campaign I am sitting there looking at money not come in while trying to GM because I have to keep an eye on the donations cause if they do go off I have to trigger them. For that reason alone, I'm never doing them again. I'm not subjecting myself to that feeling in act3 when the donation event isn't that interesting and I can see it not moving. It's a pit in your stomach where your like "fuck we aren't going to get funded this week, I have failed" in the middle of a show. Yikes.


    On top of all this, they didn't work. On average, you yourself Stuart, only ever donated to a single donation event each week (which btw thanks for all the support!!!). This is a very common trend and if users aren't really being enticed to throw a few dollars when fun events spawn, whats the point? If the majority of users put their donation in for the one that gives them an avatar or w/e the bonus is and just sit around hoping one of the big backers drops 100 bucks, why are we going through all this extra, ultimately pointless work?

    Instead of donation animations this week, we did an extra Divine Decision that required two animations to do properly. Are'ani doesn't even die if chat chose the other vision! We focused our animations on "moments" we knew were most likely going to occur in the campaign. Divine Decisions are way better then donation events, but obviously we can't do 10 of em per campaign.
  • What would 10 Divine Descisions in a campaign look like? "What would the Forn Like for Breakfast? His Tears  or Scrambled Eaglebear Eggs?
  • edited July 28
    I can totally get that first part and see why matching financial dependence to the donation events is a negative. And yeah! I can understand that second point too.

    But there was always something about watching the donation numbers tick up and it gave excitement to even boring parts because you knew something was going to happen. (The website told you what the donation would do.) It also made long combats/rps less monotonous because you'd constantly having random things pop up.

    And I think Divine Decisions are really fun for what they are, but Events kinda allow the community to contribute to a 'decision' as it is. My favourite ever donation was the Old Gods killing Phanto which was one of the cooler pieces of interactive media I saw. 

    I totally enjoy focusing the animation on bigger things but I still can't help but miss these certain aspects of these events and would love to see something that brings them out.
    @Rob
  • I honestly really like the new form of donations. From the side of a person who typically throws a couple of bucks at one donation per campaign it feels better than having to chose one donation or feeling like there really isn't a huge special one I want to throw it towards. Additionally it fits the flow of the show better where characters have to get interrupted during rp for a donation event or combats natural flow is stopped. I feel like they also have a habit of elongating combat which is something that I know always used to bother me. This new format not only allows for all who donate to benefit from all the rewards but also allows for more integrated bonuses. It allows for things like the first divine decision with Are'ani that normally would be a donation event to feel more like it fits with the world and allows for it to be more based in viewer interaction. And I think the viewer interaction both during the show and on the forms is one of the things that really sets URealms apart. Just my take on things though, I 100% get where you are coming from. 
  • There is something special about donating specifically to kill Phanto that is lost in this new system. The Old Gods donations have less impact in this new system. Knowing your donating specifically to fuck something up or to something that will cause major ramifications is much more interesting overall. 
     
    It's 100% easier to deal with on Rawbs end though and I'd rather him focus more on the show itself when it's happening which this new system allows for. Divine decisions are really fun to. The build up and anticipation is always fun. The entire stream of making the Old God divine was just those decisions and I was hooked the entire time. 

    Plus the new system is almost guaranteed to always get funded. Unless Rawb goes super high. Like $20,000 or something then these big 1 time donations will almost always go all the way. So this new system is much better financially and anything to keep the show alive, while not compromising on what makes it fun, is a good thing to me. 
  • Keep the system the way it is but then put some additional donations on for extra special things as a trial run. Kinda like Maelstrom becoming a dragon or Law vs Murder Bros. Make sure the campaign is enough before you do this so money isn't a problem but so the chat can tip you and make their experience even better. As well as add to the current meter by not showing what they do and just showing some of them until you get to that part of the campaign. So it merges the two formats. With the current donation event bar on stream, at the milestone of each perk so you can see the bar going up to reach them so you don't have to go the website to see it. Just a nice thing to add but I'm happy with the new system personally, this is just my attempt at a compromise  :)
  • edited July 29
    I feel for both sides of this discussion, and having only recently starting donating myself, both because I'm now in a better finantial situation and the new system makes it so I don't have to "hold on to it waiting for the right donation" and risk missing the right chance, I feel like it's still a step in the right direction.

    Rob has clearly stated his position in this so there's no point mentioning it anymore. The 'solution' as it stands I believe is making those optional Divine Decisions grander, more enticing and rewarding: not just in Gold, Experience, Accolades and other virtual things, but in suspense and direction. Alluding to potential developments while keeping vagueness to it. Which is exactly what's being done.

    I honestly think that the team will be more than capable of improving on them which will bring about the same feeling of support and decision as the previous system did. And if people still think that "it's not quite the same", I can only suggest thinking of every stage as an individual donation, where the whole Community needs to pool in and work together to reach the next one.

    That's my 2 cents anyway :)
  • @Stuart I don't think. "i like watching it tick up when the show is boring" is really a great point for keeping donation events cause ultimately there is an underlying problem that needs to be solved there. This week for example we didn't really have any real combats. We had moreso combat that was centered around roleplay pieces. Combat is happening, but only because it needed to happen in that moment. Even at the very end, I had to pull out a Gwyneth puppet which I never thought in my mind i'd have to do, because the combat radically changed.

    If combat is boring, the show is boring. Donation events don't fix that, that's a band aid.
  • @Kalazar321

    No there isn't because it would of been a Divine Decision.

    There is also no reason I can't do a donation event again in this nature if we wanted to do something like this. It's just not worth to keep doing this style of donation system because the time investment is brutal for what is such a small aspect of the show.

    I need to cut the fat or else I honestly can't do this stuff anymore. It's grueling in a lot of ways and even the day after a campaign I'm utterly exhausted and this week was a lighter load because we didn't have to do the hassle of the event stuff.
  • @Rob

    Divine Decisions are better overall for sure. Especially on your end. What I meant was that directly donating to something feels more impactful when it's something like the end of Utopia. If Phantos death was a divine decision between the Old Gods or the Beenu causing it, it would still be impactful, but not as direct as knowing we directly caused that to happen intentionally as a whole. 

    I love the new system overall though. You're doing great work and this is my favorite thing online and has been since Season 1. Make no mistake you have been my favorite creator since I rediscovered you with Lords of Minecraft. Urealms is fun because things change each season and don't mean to discourage you or anything. 
  • Overall I can see both sides. Personally I feel that the current system is much better in the long run of the show. As someone who has donated lots of money to rob, it makes me feel better that he made this choice. He said that he needs there to more small donors and less of the 'big' donors to make the show survive by making this choice he is giving people the chance to have this happen. I understand people thinking we need a bunch of huge donations to reach this $12000 goal for the show, but that is not necessarily the case. Many many times I would see the donation goals for the first act of the majority of S3 go well over the limit because people wouldn't try to 'save' their money and donate to a different event and just know that there are big donors who will do that for me. I will miss the fun events to make combat for surprising, but I personally love the new system and I fully hope that this is how the events will be done in the future, plus maybe a donation 'war' once a season if Rob wants.
  • edited August 1
    I really like the idea of more Divine Desicions, not only does it help viewers try to get into the new exclusive chaos club, but the tension of which side is it going to fall on is SUPER exciting! We even got a major upset during this first S4 campaign, very cool. I can also personally relate to Rawbs feeling of feeling a pit in your stomach when you aren't seeing people flock to all of your donation events. Volunteered at a local charity event for years and it just drew less and less people until it shut down 2 years ago.

    Talking about the old donations a bit though, I feel there were plenty that could have been combined together and made as a divine desicion. A big example I can think of, and also my personal favorite event, was the buckeroos final The Law vs. Murder Bros donation war. Of course a donation war is a little different to the regular events, but I feel like its a perfect example of what could have been a Divine Desicion easily.

    Lastly I'd like to mention that the old donation events were indeed a blast overall, I think I donated to a majority of all of them. Missed a few i'm sure, is probably why I was always missing out on being one of the top donators of S1&2  :|
  • edited August 4
    So from the perspective of a fan that works every Saturday and isn't always able to make the live shows and until this year was only able to donate in small amounts or buy a few things off the store.

    I think the new system is fan-flipping-tastic. Made donating simple and easy. It made catching up with the live show more palatable as I didn't have to check donation events after being away for an hour. The increased opportunity for people to join the order AND have a direct impact on the game with more members of the community (not not just those able to make significant donations) to make direct impact on the show was great. I loved every bit of it. I also got super pumped to see the donation funding hit the mark early on in the stream. If it stays as is without change, I am happy.


    But, clearly there is a sense of loss in this change. So, what if there were occasional random donation events that could happen after the initial goal was fully funded. Think of it as a version of the "sneaky mouse sale," where Rawb can either preplan an event when he thinks it is appropriate OR randomly generate an event BUT these random donations are not something that should be expected every show. 


    So just to reinforce the rules of this completely hypothetical middle ground that assumes these "random donation events" wouldn't require more trouble to set up then they are worth.
    1. The one large donation event stays unchanged 
    2. Random donation events dont happen unless the main donation is funded but are small enough that their workload would not be felt as overwhelmingly wasted effort (no animations or legendary items. These would be "established character shows up" or "all pcs learn a random spell" )
    3. Random events are uncommon to rare, but can be planned or improvised as Rawb and his team feel appropriate. (like only one may happen over three  campaigns)


    Bottom line: Rawb has been working as a digital bard for years over many different projects, and I haven't. Ill trust his judgment on how to run his show, and support it however I can.
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