[Spoilers] Homework for season 4 - post-Lightbeards realizations

denisgur1

So, considering the last revelations regarding the nature of the grand paladin and Viranda, here are some old Urealm link that need some rewatching:

First one, as mentioned by Rawb himself on stream, is The Purge teaser video:


Second one, is the final act of The Purge, in which Lance has met his death prior to the arrival of Bopen, who turned him into an ageless and had a little chat with him...
https://youtu.be/2CSnYzK7Lj4?t=36m50s

Now, it is important to reflect on the last act of The Fall of Dundinborough, where Lance came just in time to  witness the creation of Bopen - pay attention to the golden sword.
https://youtu.be/gVAHRDO_hps?t=38m50s
you can watch that up to 47:00 for the important buiss.

Bopen plays an important part in all of this, since we on the discord hypothesized that Viranda might have been trapped in the golden sword used to slay her, untill reanimating bopen.

EDIT:
Another thing to note is that the golden blade used to "slay" Viranda was in fact Sursurflame (as mentioned during the Lightbeards campaign) - a sword we stumbled upon back in season 2 during Unexpected Discovery, which was thrown into lava during the end of the Den of Devils.
We can witness it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejNH265cRR4&feature=youtu.be&t=35m21s
Now - don't let the former design fool you! The blade got redesigned, as we can see in this snap taken from the dragon battle animation during the last act of the Lightbeards:

And again, sticking out of the ceiling:

The blade is now golden, and highly resembles Bopen's golden sword in it's shape!
Is it possible the blade, containing the spirit of Viranda the dragon, found its way to the treasure room of Dundinborough, where after listening in on an old tale about a pirate named Bopen, gained back control and did all sorts of amazing magic (now that it's a dragon) to animate a skeleton called Bopen?

Discussions and other important clips-that-need-revisits will be gladly appreciated!

PanDoes

Oh, is the sword in the final animation not sursurfire? (or however you spell it)?

denisgur1

@PanDoes ;
It's mentioned, but does that hurt the theory?

War_master_9

@denisgur1 Yes bcz Bopen doesn't wield that sword as far as i'm concerned

denisgur1

@War_master_9
Well it was never mentioned what sword he was wielding, all we know about it is that it's a golden sword.
No reason for anyone to recognize it either, apart from Virgo and Lance, possibly.

BegbertBiggs

I think the big question is: If it is the same blade, how would it have gotten to Dundinborough? Especially if we assume that it's the same Sursurflame that appeared in Unexpected Discovery/Den of Devils.

Caprikel

Yeah, the sword is the same one lunk has now

Awesomeagle23

Lunk dropped it into the lava, you can thank denzik for making him do it.

denisgur1

Here's the clip of the sword falling from the celling of the cave in Unexpected Discovery, doesn't look like our sword guys(EDIT: it is infact the same sword, just in a former design, please read my other replies to this thread) - for one, it's not even gold:
(Skip to 35:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejNH265cRR4&feature=youtu.be&t=35m21s

However, the sword use to slay Viranda does resemble Bopen's sword's shape quite alot (credit to @OliviaTSayle for the snap): 

plus it's golden:P

PanDoes

The clip in Unexpected discovery is at 35 minutes and 25 seconds, since it isn't working on the forums

denisgur1

@PanDoes ah whoops I'll edit that in, thanks.

PanDoes

To support the theory Spiff does say something about her "great jaw line" in the campaign, which I thought was funny, but I'm having lots of trouble being convinced. 

denisgur1

@Caprikel
Alright, so the sword is sursurflame, as mentioned here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/316277037?t=05h04m55s
But, it appears golden and in the shape of Bopen's one, unlike the one in Unexpected Discovery - this could just be a retconned design.

Real question is - did the Den of Devils happen before The Fall of Dundinborough, or after?
If it happened before it, it's completely logical the blade, after being thrown into the lava, made its way to Dundinborough's treasure room.

The donation description for Sursurflame's event reads as follows:

From the ceiling falls a Sword forged from the fires of Hell itself. This Sword alone is not enough to slay a Dragon, and this is just a whelpling which is basically just a baby Dragon! No, this Swords value is not in its strength or power, but it's story. If you donate to this event, even a little bit, you will be dooming many of the beloved characters created on this show over the last two years, but in return you will get to watch them venture into the pits of hell itself. So what do you value more? The life of fictional characters, or their story? Death is the only Ending. Choose it wisely. This donation event leads to a follow-up campaign for the 9th show this Season that takes place shortly after the events of this campaign as the survivors, the Grand Paladin Order, the Guild of Explorers, and a whole bunch of mercenaries we have created and met from all the shows will venture deeper into this cave. Deeper into the Den of Devils.

that does sound like an accurate description of that blade's story-to-come...

Dolfinmaster

@denisgur1 Sursurflame doesnt look the same because its 2 different people animating the scene.

PanDoes

I have trouble believing that Bopen is wielding Susurflame. For one, Susurflame has 2 range, and we don't really see Bopen use that range. I'm going to skim through senate of deadlantis, but I also find it hard to believe Bopen is immune to fire, which if he was wielding Susurflame, would be very important.

denisgur1

@Dolfinmaster yeah, as I said we probably shouldn't pay attention to the former design - what's important is that it's gold now, and resembles bopen's sword.

@PanDoes since this suggests the sword is possessed by Viranda, now a dragon, Bopen can probably do whatever it wants regardless. It's not like he ever uses it as a hand-to-hand-combat sword anyway - he makes it fly around and kills everyone with magic and such.

PanDoes

I think it is also important to mention this would make him a divine, which would be interesting when we look at the incident with the sandbolds.

denisgur1

@PanDoes What incident are you referring to?
We're aiming towards Bopen not actually being real at all, but just a puppet controlled by Viranda in the sword, which is more than divine - she's a new dragon aspect

siennamydog

@denisgur1 ;
OOO! I have the answer for when Den of Devils happens and why Bopens sword is Not Sursaflame. This is from an earlier comment of mine on discord so, it will be a little out of context : "I think that we are getting too hung up on the material of the sword. In all reality a gold sword might just be a great material to make legendary swords out of (since they are solid magic after all). For instance, we know dundinburough likely happens before Den of Devils (awakening of the ancient one killing Michael's kid, and Silver mine mountains and virgo dying happens at the same time). meaning that the sword has not been rediscovered before bopen came to life. So that means that the two swords would have to exist simultaneously as separate items, or bopen lost his sword for a short while in the den."

Rob

Ya normally I don't correct you guys because anything I say makes you second guess yourselves or make you think this is also some sort of trick, but I think you can establish timeline wise that Bopen and Sursurflame exist in the same time. Like we saw Sursurflame was still stuck in the ceiling at the end of lightbeards and it ends up in a pit of lava. 


I think there is character connections that put Den of Devils pretty far in the future from when Bopen is born in Fall of Dundinborrow. 

PanDoes

@denisgur1 ;
The incident I'm referring to is in The Skeleton King Episode 7 
At 39m40s:

When the sandbolds show up, freeze time, and rescue these children, rob specifically says at 42:20 that "Bopen is also completely frozen in time." which means he is not a believer or a divine. 
Now it could be possible that Viranda isn't frozen inside the sword, and it is just the bones that are frozen, but at that point it means Bopen is a completely separate character just being fueled by Viranda's power.

War_master_9

Why must rob confuse us so?!

Dolfinmaster

But now the question is, why would the spirit of Virendra, who with time I would assume regain the state of her mind, attack what she once focused her life to defend? Why would she go to kill her husband's spirit? Those are the real questions here.

friskyBrisky

@Dolfinmaster My only guess would be that she's pissed with everything involving the light; it was 'the light' that almost killed Bruce, it was 'the light' that turned her into a dragon monster, and it was 'the light' that eventually killed her, and Virgo and Gwyneth. And since Virendra is only knowledgeable in the light, it would make sense why she would team up with the exact opposite of the light that she doesn't fully understand; the Dark (aka the Ageless). The Pirate theme also makes sense, at least when you remember one of the stereotypes of Dragons being their affinity for Gold (although that might just be her doing a bit, she is feeding it all to some weird Golem thing).

Dolfinmaster

@friskyBrisky But she almost killed bruce, and it was the Dark that killed him eventually. I wouldnt say it was the light that mad her a divine, but more so the laws of their universe as master the light has meant master magic. I guess ill need to think about this for a while to try and comprehend it, all for February to come along and throw a wrench in all of that too.

friskyBrisky

@Dolfinmaster She wouldn't have done it if a) Thor, in one of his drunken stupors, decided to kill Lance for 'the light', and b) if she hadn't spent years mastering 'the light' and following all of its core tenants which would allow her to become a Dragon in the first place. And Norokoh/Ghostblade isn't necessarily 'the Dark', she's more of a Chaotic force in the Realm.

Is it the most logical thing ever to decide that one bad day means something you used to love is the worst thing in the world, to the point of having to destroy everything associated with it? No, but Dwarves are not the most logical race in the world, especially when this Dwarf turned into a crazed dragon and was murdered in the course of hours.

Reizel

@Rob Far enough in the future that Bopen's story could've happened in the middle perhaps? Like after The Lightbeards it winds up in Dundinbourough then sometime after Bopen's story comes to a close it lands in Den of Devils where it will be thrown into lava after making weird elemental hybrid dragons.

denisgur1

@Rob @PanDoes
Well that changes everything.
Bopen's sword can't possibly be Sursurflame, no matter the resembles.

Alao, since Bopen froze in time, it means he can not be neither a believer, a devine, or a dragon - killing any connection he could have had to Viranda as that would at least make him divine.

Qazerquoi

I think the connection that Rob is taking about is Micheal Langstrom. Him being there talking  about his dead son puts Den of Devils some time after Wood Carvers which we know is close behind the Grand Paladin Order and the Purge because of the appearance of Vitali, Allesa, and Jormr in GPO. And then we know that these campaigns are pretty recent in the timeline and are way after the Fall of Dundinburough where Bopen gets his sword, so that sword is probably not sursurflame.

Dancorps13

I think we asking the wrong question here. The sword Virgo have can damage immortal beings, divine, and dragons.  And the text in the donation event says that Sursaflame can't do that alone. So what the weapon that Virgo truly have. 

MrAnything01

Reading the description of Sursaflame for when we donated it. It seems like more that this is a curse story sword, making it whoever has is or wields it is doomed to a death. Whether this sword is or isn't Bopen's sword is a different question. The true question is being what importance does this sword have?

If you watched the Lightbear fight scene, we know that sword doomed Virendra to death because it killed her in her dragon form. It doomed Bruce to death watching her lover die, causing the depress man vularunable enough to be killed by the Assassian Ghostblade (a character I will happily defend due to being a Beenu). It doomed Virgo to death by being killed by Bopen at the end of Season 2. Later with Lunk using it in the Dens of Devils, look at all those characters who were doomed to death in that campaign before Lunk throw it into the lava.

I am just saying, but we should pay attention to the story of characters near or wielding this sword, since it only seems to be bring trouble and the story ending of death to all those who see it.