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The Cruelty of the Old Gods

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  • I voted "no" in the divine decision, hoping it would allow for some autonomy within their world. I hoped it would allow the characters to find their own paths, to escape our influence. If the visions we send are absolute, if they must always come true, then this world is little less than our play box. We would be no different to James, with his plastic cabin, even if we would act with benevolence. We've yet to see the full outcome of the decision, and all the ramifications that it has. Hopefully, it will lead to a world where these characters are able to escape our cruelty, and forge their own fate.
  • @Dalard
    Lance would have given us a paladin who could properly defeat Bopen and was insane to protect the countless living tensions of Urealms vs the minority population of ageless. 
    While Bopen is a wild card and did kill virgo on his own  but we gave him the power he needs to wipe out the living population which again is way more then the ageless and are we really playing the best interests of the ageless when most of them just want death or to be left alone?
    Also im pretty sure we knew Bopen was coming if you looked at the donations before the show and it was kinda obvious.
    You better believe we tricked Lyn she specifically states that her visions are from us and we can assume that the visions are coming from her connection to spiff that we donated for since shes getting to know the future spiff knows. Also the divine decision is definitely related to her child since we made all her visions for her future child untrue giving her yet another disappointment.

    While not every Old God is destructive or harmonious but its clear what a lot of us a striving for a massive war between Bopen and Gwyneth pure chaos the perfect show. 

  • @Fyre I am sure we could argue with these decisions for a long time, but I can see we both know that they are neither white or black. And I agree, Old Gods tend to create chaos in the Realm by their action. But almost every decision and donation are made toward chaos or violence, we just choose different shade of it. And still, I believe chaos can bring a new order, a new balance.

    For example, yes, we pushed for the war to occur, but it was always gonna happen. But this war isn't just unnecessary violence. It may end with a status quo, a world where both ageless and living learn to live together; it may end in a new world of immortal where pain and violence isn't necessary anymore with only ageless; it may end with a world where the elves are no more the predominant species, where a new world order view every race as equal.

    Rob set up the Realm to dive toward chaos and yes, most of the Old Gods act toward chaos, but not every Old Gods have the same motive to act like that. From chaos comes change, and everything could become better or worse with change, this just depends how the story goes.

    As for Lyn, I still believe some Old Gods made her insane by sending her vision and marking her, but we didn't send specifically the vision of her poisoning the Beenu, so we didn't trick her. Not every vision became untrue, just unreliable. And then, a divine decision was already made for giving her a child, where we suppose to think that the last decision was going to affect the child? It was just going to affect the vision of the child, not himself...
  • I could not agree more with op, we tend to wash our hands about it, but we are as responsible as the characters.
  • It's worth noting that as black screen at the end of the vision said, even that vision might not have been true. Lyn may still have her child anyway. 

    I voted yes yesterday. Afterwards I thought no would be the better choice. 

    Think on this- What if yes had been chosen, and in the vision Lyn's child had died anyway? (I wouldn't put it past Rawb to do that to us)

    Then we really would have been responsible for killing a child. 

    Every Old God is different in mind and belief, but we're all here for entertainment. Whatever is chosen in Divine Decision, whether it's the majority or the minority, we are all cruel terrible higher beings using what happens to these poor characters for our own enjoyment. If that enjoyment comes from messing with the reliability of visions we give the characters, then so be it. We're still entertained. 
  • @Dalard ;
    Ill agree that not everything is black and white but can peace really come from two radically different races with two violent and unstable leaders who just want each other dead? Plus Bopen doesn't care about the ageless after he eliminates the living he'll kill them too it will be even easier for him to do it since he's there leader. Not all change is good.

    Also with the divine decision it never said Lyns child would be born just that she would get pregnant so we should have known what whould happen when we suddenly chose to make all her visions about getting a child untrue.
  • In my personal opinion, as of right now, the true evil of the urealms world is us. When it comes  down to it, almost every decision we have made has been the morally wrong choice. Off the top of my head, I can think of many situations that were clearly the "wrong" choice, from killing Phanto to allowing Bopen to win against Virgo. Now sure, there are places were we made the "right" choice, like letting the law bring the murder bros to justice, or where we weren't given a real choice and both choices were bad, like who was going to be the new Grand Paladin. But for the most part, we've simply been terrible gods. Feel free to disagree, but those are my 2 cents.
  • @proudmhello ;
    Ackshully
    Phanto would be dead either way, so we just took the blame instead of the Beenu, so while it is bad, it is a selfless act.
    At the end of TSK we had no choice as to whether Bopen or Virgo would win, so you're wrong there.
    Some people are of the opinion that the Murder Bros were the good guys, (including me) so don't you dare assume that letting the elves win was the right thing to do.
    For Grand Paladin, in addition to those who believe that the GPO is evil, so giving them a bad grand paladin is debatable as to goodness.
    So, now that I've seen your two cents and raised 4, (haha poker joke) anyone else want to engage?
  • Due to the nature of the divine decision, i don't believe it's appropriate to say "we" and other plurals in regards to the outcome. It was singular individuals who made the ageless go to war and prophecies not 100% accurate. Not the lot of us as a whole.
  • @Fyre Don't misunderstand the visions we gave Lyn. We showed her the future she wanted, the last vision being of Leomaris warning her not to kill the Beenu. She took the initiative on her own to slaughter that race just as she told herself to in the vision. The mission of genocide was her misunderstanding of the message we were giving her and she was punished for it.
  • What would have been better is if the visions were true. Lyn saw a future where she was granted a successful childbirth from the old gods, did everything in her power to make it come to be. She killed an entire race so that some unknown deity who everyone thinks isnt real would possibly give her the chance to have a child, despite having a 77/0 child birth ratio. She put caution to the wind and gave everything for this child, and surprise surprise, a 78th miscarriage. It was horrifically cruel of us to do that. BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CRUELER. Just imagine, after she goes through this 1 in a million chance for this child, it actually works. And after all that, she finally gets a child, the one thing shes been wanting her whole adult life, and then we take it a way from her. THAT would have been a good story.
  • on the topic of whether the old gods are good or evil (though it's been said before); i'd say that you CAN'T say. yes, some divine decisions have had some decidedly negative effects on the realm. some have had some good ones, but at the end of the day, we're all in it for our own reasons. some people want good things to happen, others want bad. some people (like me) just want to see the most interesting results, whether it's good or bad. i supposed you could say some of us are evil, but not this entire collective. i personally wanted lyn to have that baby, and i also wanted all of our visions to be true.

    like everyone else is saying (but i felt the need to repeat), we old gods are more of a grey area. some black, some white, but all shades, and all jerks gods.
  • @Reizel We showed her visions of a future where she would get a child but we also added a catch telling her she would have to kill for it as we showed her a vision of her talking with Robear about how she would get rewarded with a child after killing the beenu for us so yes we kinda did tell her to kill the beenu .
  • @KaeawynShifter ;
    Ackshully
    You know way more lore than me. I didn't know that the benu would be responsible for phanto's death and I thought that the good vs evil bidding war meant something, so I can get behind that. ( I assume that that was revealed in the behind the scenes, as I never watch them). I personally would call the GPO evil (or definitely worse than the murder bros), but also being a lesser evil than bopen. However, with the information we had when the fight between the law and the Murder Bros was going on, I would have called the GPO (or at least the Sunswords) the good guys. 

    I wrote this in minute bursts over 5 hours, so if it sounds stupid, nonsensical, or just plain wrong, that would be why. 
  • @proudmhello
    Understandable, I was a little bit on edge when I wrote my response, so all is forgiven. The whole thing with the Murder Bros is that Rawb always tries to make everything a shade of grey, everyone on all sides has a motive, and it's the kind of motive that would be able to drive a real person to do what they do.
  • This comment exists for the simple reason that I can't delete the draft, and the 1 on the notification is bugging me. ~_~
  • @proudmhello but... but you can tho... just click on 'drafts', then roll your mouse over the 'X' in the upper right corner of the box, you're welcome!~
  • I feel stupid.
  • Regarding Divine Decisions, I have a feeling that Both choices we are given at the time, Can backfire badly in the future, If the circumstances are right
  • @Dalard One day the old gods will have a war that inevitably will bring down the realm.
  • morality questions like this are never as simpel or easy to answer, good and evil is not realy the moevations for why we wote in Urealm, many don't see this as more than a show and many more have completely valid conclusions to why they think they made a "good" chose. to brand people as evil because they see things differently or don't vote with the characters in mind but the story or plot in mind instead, can easily become a unhealthy view point. 
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