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The Cruelty of the Old Gods

In this campaign we the Old Gods have shown our true colors we view everything as it is to us a game a joke something we can toy with to give us a quick laugh without a care for the consequences. We whispered sweet nothings into Lyn Azveltara's ear to goad her into performing genocide for our amusement promising her she could have a child something shes always wanted. Then we took it all way and laughed in her face as her whole world came crumbling down around her. We the Old Gods aren't protectors or saviors were tyrants we view the people of Urealms as nothing more then tools for our amusement.
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Comments

  • This. couldn't put it any better.
  • I must correct you, not all Old Gods are tyrants, not everyone wanted to kill phanto, to kill the Beenu, there is clearly a divide between the Old Gods, those who enjoy the suffering of this Realm, and those who doesn't want unnecessary pain. This story isn't black or white, like its characters. Like the Old Gods. We aren't just tyrant, this isn't just a joke, this is a story and not every Old Gods see it the same way.
  • edited November 12
    And if you looked at the numbers, I think this is the first divine decision where the minority vote won.
    The majority of the old gods saw fit to reward Lyn for her troubles, but a smaller group saw fit to toy with her one last time. An unfortunate result of how our powers work, but one that cannot be undone.
  • edited November 12
    This is a game to us though. 
    We created this world for our amusement, and we continue to write the story how we want it to be.
    We can be cruel, that is true, but we have done many good things as well.

    And think back to what we have really told and done to Lyn, all we showed her was possible visions of the future which she took to be fact and that led to her own 'downfall'. Yes, we did gift her a pregnancy, but like her 77 other attempts this one failed as well. Now did we do that? Kill a possible child? We never did tell her that the child would survive...

    Maybe we gifted her visions to bring about what we already knew would happen? Maybe we lied, maybe we told the truth. The decision was grey, not black or white.
  • Totally have to agree with Dalard here, I want what's best for the realm, and the people in it, I also know that if peace is ever achieved it will be bring enough that Rawb will stop making URealms and then the realm goes poof. (just like Reesi)
  • I feel like we aren't tyrannical enough. There are a few who wouldn't abuse their powers for evil.
  • A point I must make, we've always been monsters. Not a single one of our DD's has been the "good" option. We voted to corrupt, we voted for war, we rewarded genocide, we doomed a hero of the light. We are The Old Gods and our gifts are wrath and pain. The world and it inhabitants will dance to our tune forever, suffering for our amusement. 
  • @ShepardCom You're assuming that any outcome for any of the divine decisions is a 'good' outcome. Sure, we did some bad things, but choosing Lance was us assuming that he'd be able to defeat the Ageless there and end a threat, he was supposed to win that fight, but didn't, that isn't our fault. You're just being very negative about us, some of us want to help the realm, some in different ways than others, but most of us realize that we are never given a good option and simply go with the lesser of two evils.
  • I honestly think that if we made all visions true would be far more cruel. To know what will happen and to be able to do nothing to stop it. Let's say we show a vision of a city burning to the ground and a character sees it and tries to change it. In this scenario there is a chance for the town to be saved. However if visions are unable to change then that city is just doomed no matter what. I honestly do not want characters to trust us Old Gods we bring ruin and pain for enjoyment. Many of us don't even want that for the characters, but it will happen.

    Old Gods can do good for the world, but with this many individuals able to make large and sweeping decisions with their power brings more opportunity for discord and chaos.

    Also I think if Lyn did have a child it most certainly would have been a monster that ravaged the world. (but that's just me speculating).
  • edited November 12
    @BlueSpartan2 This! If I could meet Lyn and the other characters and tell them how much I cared about them...

    I'm too attached to Urealms aren't I?
  • I think you're looking at it the wrong way, it's not collectively all of us, but instead the chosen few who enacted their decisions.

    Qazerquoi was the Old God who gave Lyn the vision/idea/promise that she would be rewarded with a child for carrying out the genocide of the Beenu.  As a result, Lyn was going to put the blame on all of us Old Gods for what she chose to do.   Solarice was the Old God who decided that no, such things shouldn't be set in stone and Lyn should not be rewarded, especially when it turns out she was trying to blame us all for her own decision.  

    Old Gods tamper with things for sure via donation events, but we're always at a quarrel when it comes to the Divine Decisions, and in the end it's the choice of only one of us that matters.  Thus one Old God promised Lyn a reward for carrying out genocide while another Old God decided to pull the rug out from under her feet despite many Old Gods not wishing for that.  

    We aren't really a collective hive mind but instead individuals who influence the world and fight against one another to make the final decisions for certain things.  
  • @Yellowdash34 No you aren't, this is the exact level of attachment that seperates you from the people who see this as just a game, come, join me in the Æturnum Vale, we will do what we can to save this realm.
  • edited November 12
    Yeah, maybe so, but at the same time, you can't pin it onto every single Old God. While many voted No, I believe the majority was into Yes. Having the visions come true would have shown that Lyn could have become a much more caring person, and the visions that she held having some form of payoff that actually came.

    Instead, because of these actions, most of her visions came true except for the crucial ones, namely the possibility of a child, and miscarriage #78, her entire intention for the genocide of an entire race. But who knows what the other visions do or do not come true now.

    Does Romulus actually seek out Neena now for example, or is it just us messing with our own kind?

    And thing is, during the campaign today, it was shown how desperate Lyn was for a child, through these visions. So once the option to decide if such visions were to be trusted, it was not only just a case of if Lyn would lose her child, but also throws off the reliability of any other visions.
  • I didn't vote for this abomination. I voted for accurate prophesies. Just because a future is fixed does not negate free will or set anything outside of the prophesy.

    Really though I'm more upset about the fact that we have seriously put into jeopardy the possibility of Tree Azvetara becoming a canon character.
  • Hmm, I guess when I put the peaceful nation of Deadlantis on the warpath against the living, that could be considered cruelty...
  • @Jj_TeRroR_jJ I agree, but small correction, while i think Lyn lost the baby, don't think there dead (as that would be a bit of a cop-out), just no longer in the care of Lyn.
  • @ShepardCom

    Did the Divine decisions are that bad ? You must see that it isn't about good or bad, black or white.

    Choosing Gwyneth over Lance saved us from the most violent Grand Paladin ever...
    Choosing war over peace may give a chance for the ageless too stop living in fear of the living and get a place in the Realm...
    Choosing to give Lyn a child may have teach her about the value of life, it may have maked her a better person...
    Choosing to send Lance over Vitali, killed him making him ageless, this way we stoped a zealous Paladin who killed innocent people, we made him understand what it is to be ageless and what is it to fear the livings.
    And this divine decision didn't bring any new pain or suffering, it just showed us that we made Lyn what she became...

    And this is whitout saying that it's just 5 Old Gods that made these decisions, you can't say that all Old Gods are monsters based on the decisions of 5 individuals that are nor bad nor good.
  • @Dalard
    The Divine decisions are by no means good they all lead to one thing destruction and mayhem on a scale the world of Urealms has never seen before.

    Choosing Gwyneth over Lance gave us a vengeful and unstable Grand Paladin distraught over her fathers death hellbent on destroying the ageless.
    Choosing war over peace gave Bopen who is a mad and violent ruler the manpower and support he needs to destroy the living and the divines.
    Choosing to send Lance over Vitali weakened The Grand Paladin Order giving Bopen more of an edge and destroyed everything for Lance he lost his sense of purpose his own life he lost everything
    Choosing to give Lyn a child and taking it away from her is the ultimate cruelty we goaded her into genocide and when she asked for what she was promised to make it all worth it we gave her nothing.

    With this it becomes clear what we The Old Gods are doing were setting up a war between two sides radically different with no chance for peace and gave them hateful and unstable leaders a recipe for disaster the perfect entertainment.

    Also while not every Old God supports this a vast number do if you look at the percentages.
     

  • @Fyre
    My point was that these decisions aren't good or bad. They can be interpreted diffrently depending on which point of view you choose. We also didn't know many of the outcome of the decisions.

    We didn't know that choosing Gwyneth would create an unstable Paladin. Lance would have been more violent, that we are sure of.
    Choosing war give an hope for the Ageless to live because they would have been purged anyway by the Paladins.
    We didn't know that Lance would die. And weakening the Order is destructive ? The Paladin Order purged innoncent ! Lance having now both point of view could now stopped this war and bring a new balance.
    Choosing to give a child to Lyn is the most gentle thing the Old Gods did. Give life, give hope, give a way to reflect on her action, isn't destructive. We don't even know if we caused Lyn to loose her child again, we don't know if something really happened with that child, and there was no decisions that we made that was linked to the death of the child.

    And about the percentages, are you sure that we must generalize decisions of a slight majority to the entierty of a population... ?
  • We are like a bunch of For Glory idiots who just got a lucky shield break.
    We didnt go for the optimum punish.

    Like okay lyn got another miscarriage but she got those anyway. Had we picked truth the baby would have probably lived, and rawb would be able to punish her more. But i guess 1 more miscarriage and a sigh of disappointment from the king of all elves will have to suffice for her genocide.
  • @Dalard ;
    Gwyneth wants all ageless dead I don't think lance could do any worse except for the same but just not as crazy
    Did we really give hope to the ageless when half of their race just wants to die and another part just wants to wither away and be left alone?
    We knew that Bopen was coming around in the campaign if Virgo couldn't beat Bopen then lance sure as hell couldn't beat him. 
    Remember like you said it isn't just good or bad black or white more just varying shades of gray and like everything else the grand paladin order definitely falls in the grey category while yes they sometimes kill innocent ageless they also keep the peace by fighting flesh weaver cults, the reapers, the mindless ageless thralls, pirates, and of course Bopen.
    Also finally with Lyn there is no justifying this we tricked Lyn into causing genocide then when she asked for what she was promised we led her on then crushed her dreams giving her yet another miscarriage.

    Though ill have to give it to you on that last part but hey slight or not more then half the old god population is still a lot
  • @Fyre Last round for me tonight :)

    I still think that lance would have been worse because the decision said :
    Choosing this path will create the most aggressive Grand Paladin there will ever be.
    For the war decision, I may have pushed it, but it's to show that Bopen started the war by killing Virgo, not us. It would be the hunt for ageless, a one sided genocide, or a war that gives ageless that want to live a chance to survive.
    Did we know Bopen was coming ? It was a donation that came after the decision. If Vitali had been chosen, an innocent that showed remorse for the action of the Paladins would have died.
    And did we trick Lyn ? She says she heard us, but we didn't donated for the vision of her killing the Beenu, we didn't show her this vision. She may have imagined it, or maybe someone else showed her the vision. And the divine decision wasn't anyway linked to her child, so it wasn't a decision on our part.

    What I am trying to point out is that in most of the decisions there wasn't a good and harmonious choice vs a bad destructive choice. It's false to say that the Old Gods are monsters or tyrant, when there is just shade of grey.

  • @EmeraldGreenz I totally agree with you. I've mentioned the fact that the survival of the baby was unsaid. I also agree that the DD decision was a grey area. Rob did say both outcomes were not good, but the one chosen was harder than the other one
  • @Fyre The DD for the grand paladin order pretty directly said Lance would be a more aggressive grand paladin. "Choosing this path will create the most aggressive Grand Paladin there will ever be." Also, we didn't know that Bopen would be arriving in The Purge, that donation event was revealed after the DD.
  • Like @KaeawynShifter said, I picked Lance because I didn't think he would lose and thought the party would wipe (and my avatar is now Vitali for related and unrelated reasons). I'm glad I went with that though because Lance's storyline is interesting and Vitali probably would have just died.

    I think something people dont think about enough is that this world isn't actually real. You may say that we just "mess with this world for our own amusement," but that's literally what it is. People get too emotionally connected to what are just characters in a story. We're not actually ruining people's lives. The Beenu aren't real. This is just entertainment, and we can do whatever we want to make the show and the world more entertaining.
  • @argetbrisingr ; Is it not interesting to care and have stakes?
  • Lyn deserved what she got, anyone who would commit genocide because you want a child should be punished.
  • There's also the fact that we don't really ever know the outcomes of the divine decisions. We were told that visions don't always come true, but that didn't mean that Lyn would lose her child. Sometimes it's clearer than that, like should Lyn become pregnant or infertile, but we never knew that her becoming pregnant would lead to us, The Old Gods, telling her that she would have a child if she killed all the beenu. The outcomes are never very clear, it's hard to predict what will happen, one way or the other. We just know what will happen in that moment, not what it will lead to. And sometimes, like this time, we don't even know what will happen now.
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