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we may have made a mistake

"the old gods of this world saw the horrors of Lyn Azveltara and given the option to punish her for her crimes, they instead rewarded her with a child. The idea of a fun goofy character being born outweighs the evils she did this campaign in their minds. While only 1 person gets to select and ultimately it could go either way, it's clear which way the old gods have not seen enough violence yet." by Rob what do you say


  • Pfft, clearly you haven't seen an anime. All we need to do it collect the Urealms dragonballs equivalent and the Bennu race is as good as gold again. 
  • You're jumping to quite a bit of conclusions there buddy. I'll list the things we don't know:

    * Lyn's reason for killing the Beenu
    * Whether the Beenu are innocent or not.
    * Who Lyn's child could be.
    * Whether Lyn having a child actually is a reward or not.
    * Whether Lyn is evil or not. (Even though evil doesn't exist.)
    * The reasoning behind the people who voted for her to have a child.

    The only thing we do know is that yes, the Old Gods have not seem enough violence yet. So you're in for a long ride dude.
  • edited August 2017
    @Maris ;
    You know Rawb said this right, not him? Check the comment for the Divine Decision video to see what he's talking about.
  • I see no problem here. We've seen Elves be wiped out during the birth of magic, and beenu during the latest campaign. We just want equality between races, even if mass genocide is involved. It's all about equality. All races deserve the same treatment.
  • edited August 2017
    Show of hands, how many people who voted for the pregnancy actually considered it a "reward" for her and specifically voted it for that reason? 
  • @Maris rawb said that in the comments...
  • @Gterra2 gotta say, even though I voted Yay, I did it to see where it would lead.
  • Rob
    edited August 2017
    There are no mistakes my man, I was just sharing the context. I'm sure some of you think making her pregnant is a form of punishment, but that completely overlooks the ironic justice of her preventing the Beenu from breeding and you in turn making her infertile. 
  • I know what he said. He also liked a comment saying that her child's death would be an even worse punishment. It means nothing. Again, what he said was the "Old Gods ... were given the option to punish her for her crimes." The Old Gods are us. The people who killed Gwyneth's child. What the Old Gods think doesn't matter because we don't know what is even happening in the Realms. My first comment still stands, we know nothing. The Old Gods don't have reliable judgement.
  • Why do I get the feeling that, if we did chose to make Lyn Infertile, Rob would've said something akin to 'Oh, it wasn't enough to make a whole race infertile because of your actions, you also made this legendary hero, who was only doing what she thought was best for her people, infertile as well. The Old Gods must really enjoy the suffering'?

    It'd be a no-win situation either way.
  • @BewareTheDragon But did it ever cross your mind when you made your decision?
  • @Gterra2 Not really. I wasn't thinking about what had already happened, more about what would happen later on in the story.

    In retrospect, if I had taken the campaign into consideration, I probably would've gone with Nay. As it is, though, the past is past, and we can't change it.
  • @Maris But you also can't say that excuses you from the choices made. In fact it almost makes them worse. The old gods witness a genocide and then argue whether it was justified because of things they don't know? Imagine if the gods of our world did that with the mass murders of our history and how we would feel about that if we could see them debate over the justice. What would even be justice for this?

    A choice HAD to be made. One of life and one of emptiness. You never really understand the entire context of any story or persons life even in our real world. Will there ever be enough context to make a just choice? Was there ever really a just choice?

    In the context of this single show though, the Old Gods were clearly unjust using only what they know. They had the ability to swing down karma justice and punish Lyn, but instead choose to entertain themselves with the idea of a fun new character. 

    You could of not voted though. I guess you would be innocent then of your choices. 
  • @Rob Not gonna deny it. We both know exactly why I voted for her to have a child. I haven't seen enough violence yet, it's true. And I'm proud of it. 

    I love this show.
  • It is true, but at the same time we know Lyn and care a bit more due to the interactions from the campaign. For the beenu, we never had a character for besides Alfie and unnamed Beenu. The context of Beenu society makes of unknown of if it is justifiable. This lack of context gives this sense of dynamic really, deciding who we want to trust. The mass murderer but of a race we know, or the race we don't know yet was slaughtered? @Rob
  • @mattturner where did you get this from?
  • @Coconut one of rob's comments from the Yt divine decision video.
  • I personally voted nay, but I'm not gonna take the high ground here. We saw the way that Gwyneth and the sunswords treated goblins, we still felt sad when rufio did what he did. In general, at this point I just don't like the elves. They can continue having children all they want, but I'm not gonna actively further their cause in divine decisions.
  • @Fizz ;
    Yeah... Even though I love some of the Elven characters the guys have made, their jingoism will be their downfall.
  • @Fizz well I think that we felt sad for Gwyneth because we'd seen her a lot before, but Lyn is a new character. I also voted no but in the end we don't make a difference, it's only the chose old god.
  • Honestly i didnt think Lyn was a kid person when i saw the divine decision
  • If there was a beenu campaign first and you worded the "nay" option differently (making it clear that this is karma for mass genocide) the votes would probably split a little bit more equally.
    I didnt even really catch the karma part untill now.
    Also, honestly I thought that she would go mad if she couldnt have a child, because she has blades on the picture, we dont want another mass genoicde. Now she probably will become a caring mother or something?
    We dont get another slaughter AND a new baby character? Yay!
  • edited August 2017
    @Dall ;
    It's never that simple. We'll have to wait and see.
  • @Dall ;Or she ends up raising someone even worse than herself.
  • @Dall If rob worded it like that he would be convincing us to  vote that way, the way he put it was just the facts. I don't think he wants to influence the way we choose. 
  • Rob clearly tries to make us think more about the impact of our choices. I think that we didn't have enough information to fully know the extent of what our choice would make. Rob said that the giving her a child was the selfish/unjust choice, but we can't know if this is really a "bad"/unjust choice.

    For example, Lyn, giving birth, could understand that what she did was an error, or maybe her children would grow thinking that he/she must redeem the atrocities of his/her mother by doing good. And then, if we had chosen to make Lyn infertile, maybe she would have taken revenge and did even more killing. Violence breeds violence, divine punishment may not have been a good answer.

    We can also see a patern in the last decisions that Rob presented us in Urealms, we donate and choose choices that are hurting the world and killing innocent, and Rob will keep reminding us this. It's like Rob try to antagonize the Old Gods by saying that we are unjust or that we have blood on our hands, but not all Old Gods are the same, and not all Old Gods made choices that hurted the Realm.
  • edited May 13
    I admit, I saw the karma justice thing and then still decided for the Yay option because of the entertainment potential (but I also thought that Lyn wouldn't be very happy about having a child). I'm glad I wasn't chosen in the end.
  • edited August 2017
    I feel like punishment isn't real punishment if the punished can't know where the punishment came from. Making Lyn infertile would not be enough, we have no idea if she even wants a child and even if she did not knowing the Old Gods were the cause and not the stones she put in the silver feels unsatisfying.

    Having a child however, the possibility of a gift and a curse outweighs her also not knowing it came from us, and with curse I just don't mean the child dying, the drama surrounding the who the father is (assuming there is no way for her to be sure) can also cause trouble.

    Lets not also forget what would happen if somehow word got out Lyn cause the death of the Beenu, imagine a child growing up while their mother is acused of comiting genocide, a chance for a heavy punishment is better then the garantee of a small one.
  • Well Lyn becoming infertile means she can keep doing what she's doing without consequences. Now she has a child and is restricted in alot of ways.
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