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Bopen And The Azveltarian Are Part of The Order of Chaos

Theory. Okay, so I've been thinking about how this all adds up, and after thinking about the latest campaign, I think I got all of it understood. People are asking questions like "Why did Lyn kill the Beenu?" and don't realize the big picture.

The elves blame the Beenu for causing Phanto's death, which caused the Birth of Magic. Except there's one thing the elves don't know; We donated to have Phanto die. Lyn pulled genocide on the Beenu as a punishment for creating The Birth of Magic. She sees the bird people as the very gods who killed the dragon aspect, in turn causing almost everything in this world we've all come to love to happen. This punishment seemed very cruel especially considering the Beenu seemingly did nothing.

Exactly. We donated to kill Phanto, the Beenu were innocent. The elves caused that massive bloodbath we saw as punishment for what they thought they had done. During that genocide scene, the chat was blowing up, saying how they hated Lyn so much. Some saying that Bopen was better than her. Ironic because if chat hadn't donated to kill Phanto, that wouldn't have happened. It's almost like a sign. A message. A punishment.

A punishment for the Gods.

In this game, the chat donators take on the role as the Old Gods. The Old Gods were born before the Realms were even created. Everything that has happened due to a donation was done by these Old Gods. So when Lyn killed all the Beenu, it was almost like the world telling us that we screwed up. 

Let's take a step back.

"We meet again, yet still for the first time, 
Tomorrow I join a New Crew, then next day a terrible crime. 

You had your chance to follow my path, 
But you chose The Law, instead of blood bath. 

You create those like me when you over extend, 
Sins burned into flesh that cause us to ascend. 
We feel you when you watch, 'Brutality' is your name, 
To you, the gods above, this is simply all a game. 

And so enjoy your story, the one you picked over me, 
She will turn on you soon friend, just wait and you see. 
We are the Order of Chaos, born from your Sins, 
Our Vision, your gift, our Body, your skins." 

                                                                                            -Maelstrom, from the 'The Skeleton King' 

Maelstrom was talking to no player when he said this. He was talking to the chat. Because, as he says in the rhyme, he can feel when we are watching. So let's review what's going on. After going over everything, I have come to one conclusion.


WE donated to have Maelstrom join The New Crew, and in turn we caused Jo Krystall's death.
WE donated to have Gwyneth's unborn child killed.
WE donated to have 4 characters watch as their families die in cold blood.

Some donations did not look this way when we donated to them. For example, when we saw a donation titled "The Painful Twist" we didn't expect Dave to die because of it! No matter what we do, every donation event turns out bad. Even things like giving Chilly Wizzy a goddamn coat backfired when Khn'-rell stole this coat. 

All of these outcomes happened to punish us for what we've done, which was setting off the donation events. To us, the Gods above, this is all only a game. We can assume from Maelstrom's rhyme and the translated elven text at the end of Azveltara Z that the Sandbolds do indeed work for the Order of Chaos. I'll explain more about this later.

In The Skeleton King, the Sandbolds come out of nowhere. Nobody sees them, only we can see them, on the meta level. Right before the Sandbolds appear, there was a donation event that made some young Kobalds appear which the characters proceed to try killing. But the Sandbolds save them, they stopped a donation event from going bad. The Order of Chaos prevented that donation event from playing out.

They punished us. In a way, Lyn killing the Beenu was a "punishment for the Gods." But wait, wasn't Bopen a "weapon used to punish the Gods" as well? Does this mean that Bopen also exists to oppose us? And in turn, does that mean a donation event caused Bopen to exist?

The Beenu, near extinction, somehow knew that we had caused the Birth of Magic, and not them. So they tried to create some way of letting the elves know that the Old Gods exist, and they caused the Birth of Magic.

"Interlopers, you have ventured too deep into these halls. This is a place that is damned by the malediction of time. The oversight of my fathers has doomed this entire realm. Your existence is meaningless when the minutes that pass curse you to forever be forgotten. To seek status. To build a legacy. To be remembered when time will erase all words, is an error. The moon has fallen, how long before the sun does too? How long before this realm comes to an end? Even now as you watch. As you listen. Your life in this realm, in your own world, slips away. You may seek immortality, but even the gods cannot defeat the passage of the hour. And if even the gods can perish, if the worlds, the stars, the sun and the moon can die, what hope do you have?

Do you not realize you are but mere characters in a story? Do you not look around you and wonder who might be peering into your lives. Who might be listening? Who might be watching?

Existence in a dimension with time is meaningless. Your reality is tied to the lifeforce of your creators who bound by their dimensional limitations of time, can only bend yours by spending theirs. Your lives are tied to the wealth and power of but a few Divine who throw gold to watch you dance. They smirk at your misery. They cry out to watch you feel pain. Should they grow tired of this realm. Should they fall to the flow of hours themselves. Then your world will be all, but erased. I warned them of this demand, but they ignored me. Just like you have arrived here to listen to my words, their curiosity has awaken an ugly truth. A truth they now wish they could unlearn. A truth that even they deep down know they themselves are tied too.

Death is your only ending.

Choose it wisely."

-Warmachine, from "Unexpected Discovery"

The Beenu created this message in the warmachine hoping to prove to the world that the Old Gods were controlling everything, but it fell on deaf ears. It was too late, the Beenu had already been diminished. The message was disguised as a normal donation event, to attract the Old Gods, making it look like it would just instantly kill the warmachine and play some music for the rest of the scene, but it wasn't that simple.

There are 2 specific donations that stand out from the rest, one was in Okagnoma Guild Hall and one was in Den of Devils. The former prevented one death roll, thus saving Lola Van Dynch's life. The second was similar, using time travel to save the life of Lunk. Like the rest of them, these acts didn't go unpunished. The 2 saved characters were then marked with a sin. A Sin of the Unforgotten. 

Onto the Order Of Chaos and its involvement in all of this. The Order of Chaos is a group of... things, that know about the Old Gods and their effect on this realm. They know that they are all characters in a story to us, and to us, this is only a game. So we can kill people and make things happen, just by setting off these donation events. The Order of Chaos doesn't like this. THEY want to be the ones in charge of their own fate. As it is, we control their fate. Chimera and Galin were both there at the end of Buckeroos, but we were the only ones deciding which one of them won. To us, this world is only a game, but to them, it's their reality. And they want to stop us, and take fate back into their own hands. They do it in ways that make us regret everything we do, like eliminating the Beenu or enraging a boss so they kill our favorite characters.

The Azveltarian only serve as a weapon by them. They do things that will purposefully upset chat. Now we can get onto Bopen. Members of the Order are born from our sins. But we can predict what happens in future campaigns based off what they say. For example, Maelstrom said "She will turn on you soon, just wait and you'll see." From this we can assume in a future campaign there will be a donation event that causes some character we already know to betray us, and had been 'evil' all along. Not only that, we can assume that this unnamed donation will undoubtedly be met, and play out just like Maelstrom said.

"Someone" created Bopen as a "weapon to punish the Gods." He may or may not have been caused by a donation event, or a donation event we haven't seen yet, or a Divine Decision. But Bopen definitely is not one with the Order. He doesn't seem to know about the Old Gods. However, in the first act of the Fall of Dundenborough, there was a donation event that told us the story of Bopen. The story mentioned that the gods gave him his power, including a ring that would ensure him to be king someday. And in turn, because this event was reached, we inadvertently caused Bopen to gain that power that he may not have had had we not reached that donation goal.

So, both the Beenu and the Order of Chaos knew about the existence of the Old Gods. However, they have different views on it. The Beenu warmachine says "Should they grow tired of this realm. Should they fall to the flow of hours themselves. Then your world will be all, but erased." Meaning that if the fans grow tired of URealms Live, the world will cease to exist. So even though the Old Gods cause very terrible stuff on the Realms, the Beenu acknowledge that they wouldn't exist without them.

The Order of Chaos has a very different approach on it. They perceive us as cancers on the Realms, that must be rid of before they destory everything. 

TL;DR: The chat who donates to cause events in the game are the Old Gods. Every scene that makes us feel sad, we should actually be feeling regret because they were all caused by a donation event, thus caused by the Old Gods. The Order of Chaos wants to stop the Old Gods from corrupting the world. Bopen was supposed to oppose the Old Gods, but he doesn't. Sins of The Unforgotten are BAD.



  • Well, if you take the translations from last campaign (the book-one in particular) the Order of Chaos seems to worship the Old Gods since the Sandbolds were our "first" servants and that the Order of Chaos "destroyed" the Sandbolds however they ensured their own destruction. Now, that could be that the Order of Chaos heard about what the Sandbolds were doing and destroyed them, but at the same time it could be that they created the Order of Chaos which in turn destroyed the Sandbolds somehow. (If any of this is true, why would Bopen be stopped by the Sandbolds? Either they oppose the Order of Chaos, or Bopen does).
  • edited August 2017
    First, I´m still glad I don´t have a badge that says:"I killed a god look at me go."
    Second, so the "good" thing to do is let the show life => Support the show and donate.
    But don´t donate to the events only to Blood tears?? (which may lead to Bopen in the first place??)

    Is there even anything good we can do?
    (And isn´t Rawb the ultimate evil cause he picks the things we can donate to, we don´t really have a choice to donate to something really good if we want to, but rawb doesn´t. We just have the illusion of choice)
  • @UnluckyBimi This is what I'm thinking; The Sandbolds were the first to follow the Old Gods, then the Order of Chaos either splintered off of the Sandbolds, or they came from elsewhere, and most of the Sandbolds were killed off except for Maelstrom, who probably willingly sided with the Order and 'sold out' his brethren.

    Still, the fact that the Sandbolds appear to be the first to follow the Old Gods really complicates Bopen further; if he were a follower (or creation) of Chaos, they wouldn't have stolen one of his troops (Ghostblade), would they?
  • @friskyBrisky That's my thoughts too, roughly. Either Bopen is with the Order of Chaos, which is why the Sandbolds got in his way, or a tool of theirs. I don't think he's opposing them (well, not any more than he does any other faction) directly other than that they're "living" and he's not a fan of that.
  • I wonder how the Divine Decision's fit into all of this. As we know divine decision winners get the Order of Chaos accolade, which says "Awarded to the lucky few who are chosen to make a Divine Decision. They are now forever part of Urealms". This kind of implies that those chosen are actually literally a part of Urealms, which could tie into the fact that the characters we make for the custom avatar might be used in the show. 
    If this is the case, it means certain Old Gods chosen can be part of the Order of Chaos. And don't forget the fact that we the Old Gods are creating the divine for the Order of Chaos for campaign 11 with our donation.  
  • @Caprikel I think that since the normal donation events were caused by groups of people, it can't be tracked down to single persons. While the Divine Decision winners were single people. I think it'll come into play when at some point we actually get to see the Old Gods, and that's when the Divine Decision winners will come into play. They will be the ones who actually chose what they chose in real life, and their logic may come into question.

    That's probably why they're having you guys make characters. At some point, some characters will go to some "place" where the Old Gods live, and there they may meet those fanmade characters.

    I'm so fucking mad that I'm down to level 2 now.
  • If the Sandbolds ever did serve the Old Gods, they definitely aren't now. They may have joined the Order after we donate to try genociding them in a future campaign.

    I don't know I only briefly glanced over that translated Elven text.
  • edited August 2017
    Here's a bit of speculation: if Lyn's child ends up being Ghostblade, as seems to be a few people's assumption, then it makes sense that the Sandbolds want to capture Ghostblade. The Sandbolds are aligned with the Order of Chaos, who seem to not like the Azveltarians, so it would then make sense that they would capture Lyn's son. 

    Of course this is speculation, but if true would at least make sense. This is only based on IF, not IS, Ghostblade is Lyn's child. (Was it ever stated if Ghostblade was alive before the birth of magic? I'd have to look at that campaign again.)
  • @WayofTime When was it confirmed that the Sandbolds are aligned with the Order of Chaos? (Maelstrom apparently being both doesn't confirm that, as he could be a traitor and/or double agent). - @Maris I wouldn't say they don't serve us, the Old Gods, now but at the same time I wouldn't say they do as all we actually know is they exist and there's a mention in an elven (I assume based on the language) book that their servitude in our, the Old Gods, name was what caused their apparent destruction.
  • @UnluckyBimi There was text at the end of Azveltara Z. Everyone assumed to how something to do with the Sins of the Unforgotten, which it was. It said something about the Sandbolds.
    Untranslated text:

    @WayofTime That does make sense, but I don't think that they took Lyn's supposed son just because they opposed her. I think it had something to do with the end of that campaign and Deadlantis.
  • @UnluckyBimi True, and in fact I may have got it backwards at some point. The last part of the page shown at the end of the s3e3 campaign reads: "Of course the order of chaos killed the sandbolds." So my theory would only make sense if it was the reverse and if the Azveltarians and the Order of Chaos are aligned.
  • @Maris That only says that them serving us, allowing us to create our first Divine, caused their destruction. Not actually saying they stopped serving.
  • @UnluckyBimi Maelstrom's speech says that. It says at some point we chose something over him, which is probably another donation event we haven't seen yet. If the sandbolds were still in servance to us, they would actually try to help us. But so far, all we've seen them do is kill Jo Krystall and kidnap Ghostblade.
  • @Maris I'm pretty sure the event where we chose something over him was the entire Murder Bros VS The Law. - I want to correct you (well, point something out) we've not seen the Sandbolds kill Jo Krystall. We saw Maelstrom do it, and as one of my previous comments said, he may he a double-agent and/or a traitor.
  • @UnluckyBimi That is also a possibility. Either way, we know Maelstrom is against us. Either because we chose to get Chimera captured again, or just because of the Order of Chaos.
  • @Maris Yet again, we don't know if Maelstrom is against us. Maelstrom isn't even confirmed to be related to Chimera in any way, just that there were branches we could've took that led to such a thing. - We know too little about Maelstrom, the Order of Chaos and the Sandbolds to say such things about them for certain.
  •  When we choose Bopen's story over Maelstrom's, we choose the Ageless over the Order. We choose who would be the primary antagonists to our protagonists. If Bopen was just a member of the Order, would that not mean that either way the Order would win? Now, that sounds like a plan that the Order could come up with, a way to trick us old gods into a situation that may seem like a choice but is really just us choosing whether we want Phillipe or Ageless. That was what we really choose, Bopen over Maelstrom. This may be the real twist meaning behind "She will turn on you soon friend, just wait and you see." 

    The same theory could be applied to the opposite side though! :p

  • Screw that crap man I got an accolade
  • @SchmidtyMD Meanwhile I'm down here at level 2, trying to seem like a critical thinker. I'm jealous.
  • @Maris Don't worry, there'll come a point in levels where one of 'em requires a ton of XP that'll allow you (and most others) to catch up to that level.
  • A few things here. 
    1) That was the most satisfying wall of text I've ever read on a forum. 

    2) I don't think Bopen is part of the Order. As you said, he doesn't seem to know about the old gods. However, I would not be surprised if Bopen's origins came from the order. Let me explain. The order's main goal appears to be to stop the old gods and sever our connection to the realms. To do this, they need to punish us and make us want to leave. They have to do this because there is no tangible item or place, at least to our current knowledge, that connects us to the realms that they can destroy in an attempt to sever our connection by force. It isn't too much of a stretch, especially given Bopen's actions and personality, that the order of chaos created, or was at least involved in his creation.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he was created by the Order and escaped somehow or something went wrong. I'm thinking his origins are similar to those of Mewtwo. Perhaps he was created but went Berserk or his power was too great for his creators, allowing the aura or spirit we now call Bopen to freely roam the realms. Eventually, he was given a physical form through the royal family of Dundinborough. His stated purpose is to punish us, but it's not something we would create. At least, not intentionally. We have the power to do that, but I think he came from something in the world. We don't know what Bopen is, but I don't think we're directly responsible for his creation. I understand what you're saying with the ripples and butterfly effect in regard to the donation events, but I don't think we're responsible. 
  • edited August 2017
    @Sabre013 maybe but I doubt it.  Bopen is aligned with the Reapers in Daedlantus and their goal is to turn every live person into skeletons. That will cause everyone in Realm to slowly die off in a extremely long period of time. That's even extreme for the Order of Chaos standards and they would have probably try to do something about that before it gets out of hand. I think Bopen is being controlled by a higher power we are not a aware that is a part of the Order and Manipulating the Reapers to accomplish their goals.

     I doubt the Order will make a weapon thats so powerful if they lose control of it that will turn everyone into skeletons so there's has to be some higher Power at play here thats stronger than Bopen also Maelstrom hallucination appeared in front of the character we were following that week to give us that poem on the island of New Dundinborough, the place that is Bopen's and his crew's homebase.
  • First of all we are not the ones who created the donation events or planned out their effects.People just donated to those because they want to support the show.It would feel rather petty if Rob went "hey thanks for helping us fund the show but now our characters hate you for donating to the events we created".
    Secondly if Bopen exists to punish the old gods and be outside their influence then why did the divine decision in "senate of deadlantis" give us the (sadly untaken) option to deny him the aid of deadlantis?
    Thirdly you are greatly exaggerating when you say that every single donation event has caused something to go bad.What about all those that gave the party a boon with no strings attached? Some of the groups of characters have done good for the world and the donation events helped them achieve victory.
  • @Anders First of all, what donation event was a "boon with no strings attached?" Are you talking about legendary rolls? I guess those are kinda good, sometimes.There was one that caused a sin. But I seriously don't see any donation event that left a positive influence on the world.

    Secondly, don't you get that the donators don't care if the characters hate them? They want to see these people suffer. Maelstrom and the warmachine say that. And did I talk about Divine Decisions? No I didn't. But I can now. All of the divine decision winners made a character for an unknown reason. These characters are obviously going to be Old Gods that show in in the game itself later on. They will be the ones who made the same decisions, but I'm getting off topic. Bopen's actions are controlled by us. I'm sure that if we reach every single donation goal, Bopen will never be stopped.

  • in porc hunters we have the "lieutenant surge" donation that gave ca-rell a powerful new weapon and the "reinforcement" donation that summoned more elves to help subdue Cimera. Buckeroos had the "tip the scales" donation which let the party count 19's as critical successes and the "dynamite sticks" donation that gave them useful dynamite.The grand paladin order had "light's blessing" that gave Mikael combat abilities and "spider slayer" which gave the crew free equipment.Some of the donations have given the party a boon and others have given them a hindrance.Saying that every donation is bad just makes you come across as a cynic.

  • Maby Rob is the elder god the god of the old gods?
  • My Theory on the Order of Chaos, is they are the physically formation of the Chaos we bring to the Realms as well donation, cheer and change the show. From the event,"Craft a God" in the Grand Paladin Order campaign, is literally us making a leader to basically our group of followers.
    The Order of Chaos is the order of characters within the Realms that have been sinned and enlighten to the present of the Old Gods, they know we love chaos, as chaos is interesting and will continuously keep our attentions. So, why not make a group designed to create Chaos in a peaceful realm in order to keep those who truely have power over the Realm here.
    Another thing to note, Bopen isn't a God himself, he is just a powerful being, The Time Magic that the Sandbolds control even stopped Bopen in his track. Thus, The Sandbolds are the counters to the Order of Chaos, removing the chaos or the possible sinned from their current place in order to restore order. Think about it, why not remove Bopen when the Sandbolds had the chance, instead of taking Ghostblade away? This is because Bopen has a reason and a goal, unlike Ghostblade who murdered for what? Fun?
  • @Anders The lieutenant surge confirmed that Ca-Rell needed to die so Kinney Boots could obtain the same weapon. Tip the scales made it so that The Law wins, since there were more players on that team, and we don't even know if we got the best ending to that yet. According to Maelstrom we didn't. Same with the dynamite. Do you not remember Mikael dying? 

    Yes I am a cynic. I've noticed a pattern. You seem upset about it. Remember, all of these donations, while they are bad, also make the story more interesting. They are all to increase the enjoyment from the Old Gods (The viewers) This is just to confirm that there are people who know what is happening.
  • Told you it was our fault!
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